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To: tomzz
Darwinists and evolutionists often portray people that differ from them as being primitive, superstitious thinkers and not the real, inductively determined rationalists that they are.

Some prominent scientists who were believers: Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo,Descartes, Bacon, Newton, Boyle, Farraday, Mendel, Pasteur, kelvin, Maxwell,Planck, Einstein and Pauli. I appreciated finding this short list in Coulter's recent book.

Usually, people quote Einsteins as denying he believed in a personal God. What he meant by this is unclear but in his personal correspondence that quantum mechanics was not true as his inner voice from the "old one" told him. He also has famously said "God does not throw Dice" in respect to this theory.

Of course there have also been any number of "proofs" of evolution including Piltdown Man (after 40 years proved to be a fraud), Haekel's pictures demonstrating embryology supported evolution (He faked them, but they still are in text books and the photographs debunking them are not), the "Archaeoraptor" supposedly the missing link between birds and dinosaurs also was proved to be a hoax.

My point is many scientists have been people of faith. My other point is a number of other "scientists" have moved heaven and earth as well as hoaxes and frauds to prove the existence of their theories. If their theories were so convincing why did they feel impelled to lie?

If Karl Popper's test is applied--science requires the ability to test and prove the hypothesis wrong--then surely religion as commonly conceived is not scientific and neither is "scientific socialism," psychoanalysis and also evolution. All of these probably have merit and can be conceived as "carving nature at her joints" but there is no way to test them let alone disprove them.

203 posted on 07/23/2006 7:36:49 PM PDT by shrinkermd
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To: shrinkermd
Of course there have also been any number of "proofs" of evolution including Piltdown Man (after 40 years proved to be a fraud), Haekel's pictures demonstrating embryology supported evolution (He faked them, but they still are in text books and the photographs debunking them are not), the "Archaeoraptor" supposedly the missing link between birds and dinosaurs also was proved to be a hoax.

Total BS. You should not be doing all your research on the creationist websites. They are feeding you full of false information.

206 posted on 07/23/2006 7:40:33 PM PDT by Coyoteman (I love the sound of beta decay in the morning!)
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To: shrinkermd
Re 203: Some prominent scientists who were believers: Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo,Descartes, Bacon, Newton, Boyle, Farraday, Mendel, Pasteur, kelvin, Maxwell,Planck, Einstein and Pauli. I appreciated finding this short list in Coulter's recent book.

This is a total strawman. The question is not whether some scientists were theists (of course, many scientists, like other humans, have religious beliefs), the issue is whether they believed in the pseudo-science of ID or were evolution-deniers. Of course, half your list lived before the Theory of Evolution was proposed. So they don't count.

It's very funny that you mention Pasteur--his idea of the Germ Theory of Disease was fiercely attacked by priests and preachers who claimed that there could not be "invisible entities that were usurping the hand of God." Pasteur and his successors firmly rebuted the "demon possession theory of disease." Ministers don't preach much about this nowadays--religion, it seems, evolves!

If their theories were so convincing why did they feel impelled to lie?

In my Post 179, I showed how prominent IDists have lied repeatedly about what their objectives and motivations truly are, not to do good science, but to promote a sectarian faith.

The Piltdown man was a fraud perpetrated on science NOT by science. The fraud was unmasked by scientists--ID and anti-evolutionists contributed not a single iota of evidence to discovering it. The same with "Archaeoraptor". Haekel's drawings were inaccurate, but there is no evidence that he consciously initiated a fraud. They are NOT in modern textbooks, except as an illustration of earlier ideas.

But the amusing thing is that many of the ideas of his time have been verified--mammalian fetuses do undergo a series of developmental stages in which earlier evolutionary features are present--not quite the same way that Haekel presented them, but it is still true that human fetuses do develop phyrangal arches and proto-tails.

218 posted on 07/23/2006 9:02:04 PM PDT by thomaswest (On ID: "We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture.")
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To: shrinkermd
Of course there have also been any number of "proofs" of evolution including Piltdown Man (after 40 years proved to be a fraud)

Why do you think Piltdown Man is a fraud?

245 posted on 07/24/2006 8:30:49 AM PDT by Gumlegs
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