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To: Non-Sequitur
I've mentioned two speeches by Stephens, actually. In the one you seem to be thinking of, Stephens mentioned the tariff only to rebut Toombs' contention that they were an issue.

Stephens was a Southern Whig, and so he approved of tariffs.

Stephens pointed out that the tariffs were as low as the southern lawmakers had wanted them to be, and that if the south hung together they would remain that way.

Yes, he said that. He was also dreaming. He must have seen what Lincoln would do, and he evidently thought it was a good thing. Although he didn't say so.

In the other speechs I quoted from, Stephens is pointing out how the South had basically run the show for most of the nation's history and could continue to do so in the future. So Stephens seems to be contradicting you rather than contradicting me.

Yes, he's contradicting me, and he was also dreaming. He probably didn't realize that Lincoln was determined to break the deadlock in the Senate by creating new States with the sword if necessary, or with his pen.

Stephens was wrong. The South was toast. I'd have tried to do it Stephens's way, and I've often thought he was right about staying in the Union to fight a rearguard action against the Machine. But further reflection on Lincoln's zeal for extraconstitutional night moves has led me to doubt that Stephens had his arms around the political problem the South faced.

313 posted on 07/27/2006 5:00:53 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus ("Whatever." -- sinkspur)
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To: lentulusgracchus
Stephens was a Southern Whig, and so he approved of tariffs.

Ex-whig. Current Democrat. But as he also pointed out the tariff rates were "made just as low as Southern men asked them to be, and those are the rates they are now at." And had the southern senators not pulled out of the Congress the Morrill Tariff would never have gotten out of the Senate, just as if had been killed the year before.

He was also dreaming. He must have seen what Lincoln would do, and he evidently thought it was a good thing. Although he didn't say so.

Surely you have some other quote from him supporting your claim? Or are you once again putting ideas in men's heads and words in their mouths without any evidence?

Yes, he's contradicting me, and he was also dreaming. He probably didn't realize that Lincoln was determined to break the deadlock in the Senate by creating new States with the sword if necessary, or with his pen.

He probably didn't believe in Bigfoot, either. Or men from space. But some people don't need evidence to believe what they want to believe, no matter how ridiculous.

I'd have tried to do it Stephens's way, and I've often thought he was right about staying in the Union to fight a rearguard action against the Machine. But further reflection on Lincoln's zeal for extraconstitutional night moves has led me to doubt that Stephens had his arms around the political problem the South faced.

I have a hard time believing that. You would more likely be like Ruffin, screaming for rebellion and cursing the 'vile, Yankee race.' Of course then Ruffin stayed at home and let others do the fighting until they lost and then he blew his brains out, a heck of a shot considering how small the target must have been. I doubt you would have been that cowardly.

315 posted on 07/27/2006 6:41:34 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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