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To: Stultis

>>They need to prove that an actual change in DNA occurred not that a particular trait was favored but already existed.<<
>>Um, why?<<

Because simply favoring an existing trait vs. coming up with something that never existed before are two completely different things. They are as similar to each other as the 737 I flew to LA last week and the model of a 737 I kid carves out of a piece of wood.

No, They are as similar as a glock 9mm and a gun carved out of a piece of soap and covered in black shoe polish: it only fools the people who are not paying attention.


39 posted on 07/10/2006 12:31:33 PM PDT by RobRoy (The Internet is doing to Evolution what it did to Dan Rather. Information is power.)
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To: RobRoy; Ichneumon
Because simply favoring an existing trait vs. coming up with something that never existed before are two completely different things.

Yeah. But the difference between the former and the later doesn't make studying the former illegitimate or uninteresting. Besides, we already know that new traits can arise by evolution. E.g. (links swiped from Ichneumon here, see also the next post):

Directed evolution of biosynthetic pathways. Recruitment of cysteine thioethers for constructing the cell wall of Escherichia coli

Directed evolution of a type I antifreeze protein expressed in Escherichia coli with sodium chloride as selective pressure and its effect on antifreeze tolerance

Molecular evolution of an arsenate detoxification pathway by DNA shuffling

Long-term experimental evolution in Escherichia coli. XIII. Phylogenetic history of a balanced polymorphism

Rates of DNA sequence evolution in experimental populations of Escherichia coli during 20,000 generations

The evolutionary origin of complex features

Contribution of individual random mutations to genotype-by-environment interactions in Escherichia coli

Rapid phenotypic change and diversification of a soil bacterium during 1000 generations of experimental evolution

Bacterial evolution and the cost of antibiotic resistance

The ecology and genetics of fitness in Chlamydomonas. IX. The rate of accumulation of variation of fitness under selection.

Mild environmental stress elicits mutations affecting fitness in Chlamydomonas

The emergence and maintenance of diversity: insights from experimental bacterial populations

Direct Estimate of the Mutation Rate and the Distribution of Fitness Effects in the Yeast Saccharomyces cerevisiae

Pleiotropic effects of beneficial mutations in Escherichia coli

The Rate of Compensatory Mutation in the DNA Bacteriophage X174

Mutation-selection balance accounting for genetic variation for viability in Drosophila melanogaster as deduced from an inbreeding and artificial selection experiment

Genetic restriction of HIV-1 infection and progression to AIDS by a deletion allele of the CKR5 structural gene

Complete Rescue of Lipoprotein Lipase–Deficient Mice by Somatic Gene Transfer of the Naturally Occurring LPLS447X Beneficial Mutation

Evolution and Information: The Nylon Bug

Spontaneous mutations in diploid Saccharomyces cerevisiae: more beneficial than expected

Nonuniform concerted evolution and chloroplast capture: heterogeneity of observed introgression patterns in three molecular data partition phylogenies of Asian Mitella (saxifragaceae)

Evolutionary analysis of genetic variation observed in citrus tristeza virus (CTV) after host passage

Examples of Beneficial Mutations and Natural Selection

Genetic Variant Showing a Positive Interaction With ß-Blocking Agents With a Beneficial Influence on Lipoprotein Lipase Activity, HDL Cholesterol, and Triglyceride Levels in Coronary Artery Disease Patients

Genetic restriction of HIV-1 infection and progression to AIDS by a deletion allele of the CKR5 structural gene

Evolution of new information

Spontaneous mutations in diploid Saccharomyces cerevisiae: more beneficial than expected

Are Mutations Harmful?

Evolution and Information: The Nylon Bug

Directed evolution of human estrogen receptor variants with significantly enhanced androgen specificity and affinity

Multiple duplications of yeast hexose transport genes in response to selection in a glucose-limited environment

Complete Rescue of Lipoprotein Lipase–Deficient Mice by Somatic Gene Transfer of the Naturally Occurring LPLS447X Beneficial Mutation

Punctuated evolution caused by selection of rare beneficial mutations.

PLEIOTROPIC EFFECTS OF BENEFICIAL MUTATIONS IN ESCHERICHIA COLI

The Distribution of Fitness Effects Among Beneficial Mutations


61 posted on 07/10/2006 1:06:22 PM PDT by Stultis (I don't worry about the war turning into "Vietnam" in Iraq; I worry about it doing so in Congress.)
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To: RobRoy
Because simply favoring an existing trait vs. coming up with something that never existed before are two completely different things.

Pardon me if I ask a question. If mutations are not responsible for population diversity, and if everything is descended from two of its kind, one male, one female, that rode on Noah's Ark, then where did all the population diversity come from?

62 posted on 07/10/2006 1:09:57 PM PDT by HayekRocks
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