Confederate flags on space station draw ire

MSNBC ^ | 6/13/06 | James Oberg

[P-40]

You're mistaking me for someone else. I haven't mention the Alabama.

Ooops. Sorry about that. :)

[azhenfud]

Posted by usmcobra to CurlyBill
On News/Activism 06/14/2006 11:50:20 PM EDT · 140 of 240

Not true, I am a true son of the south

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That all you "real" sons of the south can be so easily misled only fuels the claims that the south is inbred.

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So, your cousin was your aunt?

[Non-Sequitur]

Which time frame are you talking about? I'd certainly agree with you that towards the end of negotiations slavery became the central theme. It is hard to sound a rallying cry over tariffs but easy to do so over more tangible examples of your economic livelihood.

The southern compromise proposals floated by Crittenden, Toombs, Davis, and Hindman were all proposed in January 1861.

A couple of problems with this arguement that I see. First, it means that the southern cause was built on a lie. Second, if it was about tariffs then I would see that as a more universal rallying cry than slavery. We're constantly told that only a minority owned slaves but taxation would hit everyone, wouldn't it? Third, tariffs were not a problem. The south paid very little of the tariff income to begin with.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

Indeed. Teh Nazis only enslaved innocent people for six years or so. *Pikers* compared to the South!

If Confederate citizens had killed millions of blacks and other people, then perhaps your comparison wouldn't be so much hyperbole.

[P-40]

The south paid very little of the tariff income to begin with.

Taxation is a harder issue to understand. If you read the publications from the period you'll understand its import...but it just did not have the sizzle of the loss of an economic asset that the slavery issue provided. As to where you are getting the information on what tariffs meant to the South...I don't know. Are you talking about total dollars or relative dollars?

[orionblamblam]

> You would know the ins and out of a teen hangout...

Well, last two times I was in the South on business trips (Huntsville, Alabama and Cape Canaveral, Fl), "Sonics" seemed to be all over everywhere.

[P-40]

"Sonics" seemed to be all over everywhere.

Come to think of it...they probably are. They certainly advertise like crazy.

[orionblamblam]

> Yes the Feds were looking for a fight and provoked the South till it had no choice.

Yes the Branch Davidians were looking for a fight and provoked the FedGov till it had no choice.

Yes the Ruby Ridger's were looking for a fight and provoked the FedGov till it had no choice.

[smug]

Yes the Feds were looking for a fight and provoked the South till it had no choice. Yes the Branch Davidians were looking for a fight and provoked the FedGov till it had no choice. Yes the Ruby Ridger's were looking for a fight and provoked the FedGov till it had no choice.

Only problem with that theory is the last two are not true!

[Non-Sequitur]

Taxation is a harder issue to understand. If you read the publications from the period you'll understand its import...but it just did not have the sizzle of the loss of an economic asset that the slavery issue provided.

Taxation had enough sizzle to justify a rebellion in 1776 but not enough in 1860?

As to where you are getting the information on what tariffs meant to the South...I don't know. Are you talking about total dollars or relative dollars?

By any measure you care to use. The south appears to have imported comparatively little. Alexander Stephens uses a figure of 25 percent of total imports and I believe evidence would indicate that figure was high. Even if Stephens' figures are accurate, since the southern states had roughly one third of the population it would still indicate a disproportionately small import demand.

[orionblamblam]

> Come to think of it...they probably are.

All over the South, perhaps. Sonic seems to be a Southron concept... haven't seen 'em elsewhere. Like "sweet tea," which is little more than diabetes-in-a-wax-paper-cup....

[P-40]

which is little more than diabetes-in-a-wax-paper-cup....

If you look up the calorie count and the sugar content of those shakes they serve....your statement applies to more than just the tea. :)

[orionblamblam]

> Only problem with that theory is the last two are not true!

And neither is the first. Why was the south *forced* to fire upon Federal troops at Fort Sumter? Again, were they under Martian mind control rays?

If Fidel ordered the US out of Gitmo, and the US just plain ignored him, would he be *forced* to fire upon the US forces?

[P-40]

Taxation had enough sizzle to justify a rebellion in 1776 but not enough in 1860?

Taxation in 1776 was a big issue because of general discontent with England...but it would be hard to make the case that taxation was a big enough reason on its own to go to war over. It was a big one, but not the only one.

And you are talking import tariffs. I was talking export tariffs.

[Liberty Valance]

[stainlessbanner]

The Northern states ended if peacefully.

Did they? Or was the result of their plan a deadly war.

[ccmay]

God bless Lincoln, Grant, Sherman and the Grand Army of the Republic.

Hear, hear!

-ccm

[Clemenza]

The ONLY nation to recognize the South as a sovereign nation was the Vatican, and that happened after Sumter.

I can claim my block as the Federal Republic of Fredonia, but that doesn't make it so.

[P-40]

The ONLY nation to recognize the South as a sovereign nation was the Vatican

Odd considering putting slavery at the forefront was supposed to discourage other nations from getting into the fight. You'd think the Vatican would have given the South a wide berth.

[smug]

Why was the south *forced* to fire upon Federal troops at Fort Sumter?

The feds proved that although they said they would negotiate, it was only lip service. They agreed that the fort would not be reinforced during the talks, and the South agreed to supply rations to the troops. The feds agreed that the troops would remain a Moultrie and then ordered Anderson to move. If the Confederacy was to have any credibility it could not let these abuses pass. So they then set a deadline for Anderson to withdrawal. He did not. The fate of their Nation was at stake. A nation that does not control their own borders is not a nation.(Pay attention Congress) Every southern state that had not seceded was watching. Had they allowed Anderson to remain the other states would not have taken them seriously and would have remained in the Union. And as for Castro and Cuba we do not take him seriously but we did the Soviet Union. Probably too much so.