Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Confederate flags on space station draw ire
MSNBC ^ | 6/13/06 | James Oberg

Posted on 06/14/2006 5:58:12 PM PDT by Oshkalaboomboom

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 1,081-1,1001,101-1,1201,121-1,1401,141-1,144 next last
To: Mr. Silverback
NOPE. i reserve "nobody's fooled" for the most ARROGANTLY SELF-righteous & fact-FREE posts that are solely PROPAGANDA from the extreme lunatic fringe of REVISIONIST, LEFTIST academia. (whether the poster is wise enough to know what they posted is bilge, or not)

face it "Mr SB", you've been lied to for your entire life by the LEFT, who make this stuff up, because they HATE dixie & her people.

free dixie,sw

1,121 posted on 06/28/2006 8:25:35 AM PDT by stand watie ( Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. -----T.Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1117 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Silverback
Had Lincoln fired McClellan early, it would have been a very different war.

Quite possibly. I suppose it depends on the replacement. If Mr. Lincoln had recognized Grant's talents early on and moved him east, then I suspect you're right. But replacing McClellan early on with, say, John Pope wouldn't have made much of a difference, IMHO.

1,122 posted on 06/28/2006 10:01:42 AM PDT by Texas Mulerider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1118 | View Replies]

To: Mr. Silverback
And don't forget John Bell Hood.

Indeed. Although it's very possible Hood would have blown it even if he'd had superior forces in every engagement.

1,123 posted on 06/28/2006 10:04:38 AM PDT by Texas Mulerider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1119 | View Replies]

To: Texas Mulerider
JBH was a classic case of the Peter Principle.

he was a good junior officer & a miserable excuse for a flag officer.

despite my many years of commissioned service, i wouldn't have done even as adequate a job as GEN Hood did. he tried hard; he simply didn't have what it took.

the VAST majority of serving military officers are NOT suited to be "flags".

free dixie,sw

1,124 posted on 06/28/2006 2:21:25 PM PDT by stand watie ( Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. -----T.Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1123 | View Replies]

To: 4CJ
A DIRECT violation of the Constitution.

Not according to the Supreme Court, which upheld the constitutionality of the acts in Ford v Surget. The Davis regime had it's own version called the The Sequestration Act passed in August 1861. That authorized the permanent seizure of the real and personal property of "alien enemies" within the confederacy and affected those who remained loyal to the union. I guess those were constitutional because Davis said they were. No fine line needed by the Davis regime where legal precedents were concerned, or a supreme court either.

1,125 posted on 06/28/2006 5:08:23 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1110 | View Replies]

To: 4CJ
If a BLACK entered Illinois, they had 30 days to vacate the state, else they were fined up and deported. If unable to pay he fine, they were sold into indentured servitude (up to 99 years of service). That's yankee slavery in action. I know it's a "fine line", but it seems like that's the way yankees operate.

So what you are saying, in this blatant tu quoque of a post, is that conditions in Illinois were bad. In fact one might say that conditions were almost as bad for blacks in Illinois as they were in Virginia or every other southern state. I wouldn't go that far since conditions in the south were much worse, but you always were one for extremes. In any case does that accurately sum up the point you are trying to make?

1,126 posted on 06/28/2006 5:11:47 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1111 | View Replies]

To: 4CJ
The Ohio Blacks Laws of 1804/1807 mandated that blacks entering the state post bonds of $500 (a huge sum). Indiana, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Iowa and Oregon all enacted various bond requirements (up to $1000) and laws preventing immigration of blacks.

Similar to laws in effect in the southern states much later. When they didn't outlaw free blacks from entering completely, that is.

1,127 posted on 06/28/2006 5:30:07 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1114 | View Replies]

To: Texas Mulerider
But replacing McClellan early on with, say, John Pope wouldn't have made much of a difference, IMHO

Or Burnside or Hooker for that matter.

1,128 posted on 06/28/2006 5:31:22 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1122 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur
Or Burnside or Hooker for that matter.

I've never really understood the process that resulted in the selection of those commanders (including Pope). I understand that there were political considerations that Mr. Lincoln had to factor in to his decisions. But it seems to me that the Army of the Potomac had quite a few very capable corps commanders that might have made good army commanders. Hancock comes to mind, or Reynolds.

1,129 posted on 06/28/2006 6:41:09 PM PDT by Texas Mulerider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1128 | View Replies]

To: Texas Mulerider
I've never really understood the process that resulted in the selection of those commanders (including Pope). I understand that there were political considerations that Mr. Lincoln had to factor in to his decisions. But it seems to me that the Army of the Potomac had quite a few very capable corps commanders that might have made good army commanders. Hancock comes to mind, or Reynolds.

When Pope and Burnside were selected, Hancock and Reynolds were both still brigade and division commanders. Pope was selected on the basis of his success on the Mississippi, one suspects Burnside was selected simply because he wasn't McClellan or a McClellan insider.

1,130 posted on 06/28/2006 6:46:03 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1129 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur
I confess to spending a whole lot more time with Confederate generals. Actually, I spend more time on the Trans-Mississippi than anything else, since that's where I live and I'm just a couple of hours away from the major battlefields of the Red River campaign. Perhaps my favorite Confederate general is Dick Taylor, Zachary's son and Jefferson Davis's brother-in-law, who had no military education, being a Yale man, but who apprenticed under Stonewall and brought what he learned in the Shenandoah Valley with him to Louisiana. He was an extremely able commander (and administrator) whose talents, like N.B. Forrest's, weren't recognized in Richmond until the very last. When Taylor was sent east of the Mississippi in late 1864, Forrest was very impressed with him, and Forrest was not easily impressed. But I digress.

Ok, I understand that Hancock & Reynolds weren't yet corps commanders through the commands of Pope and Burnside. But what about during Hooker's and Meade's? Which brings up an interesting thought: would either Hancock or Reynolds have followed up at Gettysburg with a more vigorous pursuit than Meade's? I tend to think Hancock might have.

1,131 posted on 06/28/2006 7:36:13 PM PDT by Texas Mulerider
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1130 | View Replies]

To: Texas Mulerider
But what about during Hooker's and Meade's?

Supposedly Reynolds was offered command of the Army of the Potomac before Meade but turned it down. Meade was senior to Hancock and had a solid, if unspectacular, record. He was a good choice for the army and had he been in command at Chancellorsville the outcome might not have been as disasterous as it was. Hooker was a puzzle. He was a good corps commander before and after Chancellorsville and on paper there was no reason why he was a bad choice as army commander.

It's possible that either man would have been more aggressive after Gettysburg but they may not. After Gettysburg the army was worn out, about a third were casualties, artillery and wagons were pretty beaten up. It's possible that they may have let Lee escape as well.

1,132 posted on 06/29/2006 3:45:20 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1131 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur
4cj's post illustrates that DAMNyankees have ALWAYS been SELF-righteous liars & hypocrites.

free dixie,sw

1,133 posted on 06/29/2006 2:23:25 PM PDT by stand watie ( Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. -----T.Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1126 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur
in other words, the SELF-righteous hypocrites in the north were just as BAD (if not worse) than in other regions. is that what you're admitting to????

free dixie,sw

1,134 posted on 06/29/2006 2:25:03 PM PDT by stand watie ( Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. -----T.Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1127 | View Replies]

To: stand watie
in other words, the SELF-righteous hypocrites in the north were just as BAD (if not worse) than in other regions. is that what you're admitting to????

Were there racist laws and dicriminatory legislation in the North? Yes. Were conditions up there worse than in the South? Not by a long shot.

1,135 posted on 06/29/2006 3:50:30 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1134 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur
Not according to the Supreme Court, which upheld the constitutionality of the acts in Ford v Surget.

Ford addressed the legality of the Sequestration Act passed during the Lincon regime. The act applies to existing civilian debt owed to an enemy - not government/military seizures made during war.

[T]here could be no doubt of the right of the army to appropriate any property there, although belonging to private individuals, which was necessary for its support or convenient for its use. This was a belligerent right, which was not extinguished by the occupation of the country, although the necessity for its exercise was thereby lessened. However exempt from seizure on other grounds private property there may have been, it was always subject to be appropriated, when required by the necessities or convenience of the army, though the owner of property taken in such case may have had a just claim against the government for indemnity. ...

We fully agree with the presiding justice of the Circuit Court in the doctrine that the military should always be kept in subjection to the laws of the country to which it belongs, and that he is no friend to the Republic who advocates the contrary. The established principle of every free people is, that the law shall alone govern; and to it the military must always yield. We do not controvert the doctrine of Mitchell v. Harmony, reported in the 13th of Howard; on the contrary, we approve it.
Justice Field, Dow v. Johnson, 100 US 158, 168, 169, (1880)

From Mitchell v Harmony:
There are, without doubt, occasions in which private property may lawfully be taken possession of or destroyed to prevent it from falling into the hands of the public enemy; and also where a military officer, charged with a particular duty, may impress private property into the public service or take it for public use. Unquestionably, in such cases, the government is bound to make full compensation to the owner. Chief Justice Taney, Mitchell v. Harmony, 54 How. 115, 134 (1851)
Before and after the war, the courts held that property cannot be taken by the goverment without compensation for said property (see Amendment 5).
1,136 posted on 06/29/2006 9:22:20 PM PDT by 4CJ (Annoy a liberal, honour Christians and our gallant Confederate dead)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1125 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur
actually, they were about the SAME then. DAMNyankees have always been SELF-righteous, MEANspirited, HYPOCRITES & BIGOTS.

they still are the most PREJUDICED of all in the country.

free dixie,sw

1,137 posted on 06/30/2006 7:56:04 AM PDT by stand watie ( Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. -----T.Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1135 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur
btw, should we southerners send you DYs some FREEDOM RIDERS to help you DESEGREGATE your THOUSANDS of northern (and STILL segregated, over HALF a century AFTER Brown v. Board of Education!) schools???

free dixie,sw

1,138 posted on 06/30/2006 8:02:53 AM PDT by stand watie ( Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. -----T.Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1135 | View Replies]

To: stand watie
btw, should we southerners send you DYs some FREEDOM RIDERS to help you DESEGREGATE your THOUSANDS of northern (and STILL segregated, over HALF a century AFTER Brown v. Board of Education!) schools???

I don't know, are there any that you didn't kill and bury in a dike somewhere?

1,139 posted on 06/30/2006 9:10:38 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1138 | View Replies]

To: Non-Sequitur
there are LOTS of us still around, who helped to solve the civil rights problems in "the wild & woolly '60s". (most of us now have time, again, to go demonstrate for equal rights.)

NOW it seems to me that we should "turn the lights on" in the north & watch they BIGOTS up there scatter, like the cockroaches they are.

free dixie,sw

1,140 posted on 06/30/2006 9:15:20 AM PDT by stand watie ( Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God. -----T.Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1139 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 1,081-1,1001,101-1,1201,121-1,1401,141-1,144 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson