Posted on 06/01/2006 9:07:55 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
And when you drive down the road with your hammer and sickle bumper sticker most people think, "left wing commie fag."
But that's exactly why the liberals fight so hard to keep the government's education monopoly.
As a good southern gentleman I must state that any history taught by yankees is merely self serving drool. The fact of the norths victory is built upon the corpses of irish immigrants, which were detested by the good burgers of NY who would hire an immigrant to serve his draft notice. If the north did not have an unending supply of irish, swedes, norwegian, et.al stream of immigrants they would have had to sue for peace by 1863. As long as the north made money on the war with others doing the dying they were happy. The fact of the matter you could buy an irish man to serve in your stead for around $250, while to buy a slave in either NC or Delaware the going price was $3,500. I think if you really want to talk about the morality of the Civil War a good place to start would be the immigrant ghettos of New York, Boston, and Philidelphia.
That's part of your problem right there: the fact that you think it was a rebellion - it was not. It was a secession - legally passed by elected legislatures and legally signed by elected governors. The illegal actions were all on the part of the US central government.
Sorry, went to college in Aggieland and like I said, perception is everything.
confederate flag = scared redneck - That's the perception
I'm a Christian conservative man, probably more conservative than you in many ways.
"left wing commie fag."
Very nice, and very telling of your mindset. It's scared old KKK left overs like yourself that give conservatism a bad name and keep feeding ammo to the MSM.
I agree with most of what the rebellion was about, except for the aspects tied to slavery. But, it was a rebellion and it was put down. It is queer that whenever this issue comes up those caught up in the love of the rebellion never actually state how repugnant slavery was, they shift the focus away and talk about how some black people fought for the south or how many more black people are in prison than white people. Or they just call you a liber commie fag.
States rights should be restored and the govt. decentralized.
Free speech, I'm all for it, say what ever racist dumbass statements you want. I'll be laughing at you with the rest of the people as your Chevy POS with its lift kit and "Dixie will rise again" bumper sticker struggles down the road.
2nd Amendment - Everyone should excercise this right before it's taken away.
Immigration - do it legally and bring something useful into the country. Employers should be fined out of business and welfare benefits should be cut off immediately.
I'll bring you up to date:
"The history of Texas could have come to be "Pwn3d" by all the students.
I agree in part, but perception is everything. It was perceived as a rebellion, and put down as such. The triumphant write the history books.
Personally, I think a state should be able to seceed, it would have been more likely back then with a less powerful central govt. and I wish states had more power to do what the citizens in a particular state want for that state today. Those days are long gone unfortunately.
"The Confederate flag is not—and was never—a representation of the institution of slavery. The North, in an attempt to glorify its states’ fight to suppress the South’s effort to free themselves from the North’s exploitation,
HAHA
There goes the credibility of the author's effort."
Several years ago, while idly sufing the web, I ran across some Civil War sites, and was absolutely astounded to find out that more than 9,000 free black men fron the South fought in the ranks of the Confederate army. Confederate General James Longstreet credited their efforts with allowing the Confederacy to prolong the war by a year or more.
Evidently the very first unit to respond to Jefferson Davis' call for troops was the 1st. Louisiana Native Guard; frre black men from New Orleans.
Bet you, like myself weren't taught any of this in school. The victors write history.
Newbie, I've been on these WBTS threads for years and I haven't met any Southerner that defends slavery. OTOH I and my ancestors have been called traitors who should have been shot and hanged. The modern revisions that are described in the above article are meant to do exactly what the author says: paint the WBTS as the war between the good guys - North - and the bad guys - South over one issue - slavery.
What is really queer, to use your word, is the moral high ground that some attempt to grab over that issue. No one defending the precious North has ever shown any of us that the reason the North went to war was to end slavery. It wasn't even on the list. The North, tyrannically, went to war to preserve the Union.
I recall that they changed their nickname from Rebels to Raiders(?) a few years back.
Alas not even Tyler is immune.
Debating whether slavery was the issue in a war over for fourteen decades is a distraction from what's really going on here. Was there a Northern tarriff in 1860? Who cares, you may not display that symbol. Were there slaves on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line? Who cares, you may not display that symbol. Shall we play silly terminology games in insisting on the phrase "War of Northern Aggression"? Fine, go ahead, we don't care - you may not use that symbol.
Get my point? This isn't about the Civil War. This is now, it's an ongoing drive, and it isn't Yankee versus Rebel, it's thought control versus freedom.
I bet they'd let the kids wear swastikas if the swastikas were part of some "down with straight people" campaign.
No problem, as long as you redeem the merchandize and pay the interest. It's better than throwing it in the trash.
I agree, and I have never been under the assumption that the North was virgin white in it's innocence regarding the civil war. I understand they initiated a reconquest of the states which seceeded to preserve the Union and not to stop slavery, but that was one of the results.
Free black men didn't get super nice treatment up north but at least they weren't considered property like a cow or a pig or a plow.
It's when the issue of slavery comes up, people defending the lost rebellion gloss over the fact that the South institutionalized slavery. I know Abe emancipated the slaves, not out of the goodness of his heart but political expediency, but he did it.
It's not that Southerners "defend" slavery but when it's regarding the civil war and the confederate flag people fond of the Confederacy try to minimize the horrific nature of slavery and equate it to servitude or something far less grotesque.
I do think I understand where you are coming from and I've learned something. Thanks for teaching me without having to call me a liberal commie fag or some such nonsense.
Me getting offended when people minimize slavery is similar to you getting offended when people don't make a distinction between the percieved right to seceed and the end result which was considered a rebellion and dealt with as such.
Family tradition is Cherokee. But, I'm suspicious, because the story is that Grampa Pate married a Cherokee "princess."
And there's no real record, just what I remember my grandmother saying. My daddy's oldest sister mentions it in her story about her family.
What? They most certainly were. Some Northern states ended slavery earlier. So, that's like saying they stopped beating their wives first.
It's when the issue of slavery comes up, people defending the lost rebellion gloss over the fact that the South institutionalized slavery.
Slavery was a worldwide insitution and the South, along with the North, (basically a bunch of dead European white males) ended slavery in the US with the 13th amendment. Slavery continues to exist to this day. Slavery was the norm in the centuries before the WBTS. If African ships had pursued a weaker white race in Europe and were able to profit from slavery, it would have been white slaves and black masters.
I know Abe emancipated the slaves, not out of the goodness of his heart but political expediency, but he did it.
No he didn't. The EP freed no slave anywhere. It was a war measure and only freed slaves in the "rebellious" states which didn't recognize Lincoln's authority and he knew it. Lincoln had earlier stated that what he did regarding slavery was only to preserve the union.
If you went to school at Texas A & M, you should be ashamed of yourself. The dribble you are spewing isn't what they teach.
I hate slavery. Slavery had to go -- all infringements on the inalienable rights to life and liberty have to go -- no ifs, ands, or buts. Along with all restrictions on personhood of all humans and our children, slavery should never have been tolerated in the Union - in order to make the deal that became the Union - in the first place.
The history of Texas includes the "Six Flags of Texas," plus all sorts of other sentimental and historical memorials.
Besides acknowledging that Texas has been a sovereign nation on its own, as well as under French, Spanish, and Mexican rule, some people wave the "Don't Tread on Me" flag, the original 13 stars, and even (gasp) State flags. None of these replace or are meant to replace the 50 Stars and 13 Stripes to which we pledge our allegiance.
Although I am aware enough of the perception of the Confederate flag - and that it has indeed been used to further that perception by some - that I won't wear or display it myself, I object when anyone states that the succession of the Southern states hinged on a single issue.
The Confederacy also stood for State's rights, made up of a voluntary federation of States. I wonder how history would have been different if the Confederacy had been treated as a succession of States and not a rebellion. Just as States' rights are derived from individuals with inalienable rights, the Union is built up by and from the States.
However, forcefully burying the past only strengthens stereotypes and divides the populace into those who know their history and those who don't. By making the issue one of 'rednecks' vs. whatever, insult is the only result, not education. It divides "us" from "them" along arbitrary lines that all too often obscures common ground.
Very true, and that is exactly why I will never "get over it".
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