[Quix]

Oh PLEASE! Give up the Hitler stuff OK???

I probably won't. The comparisonis rather apt--though Hitler will end up looking like a choir boy, relgatively speaking.

As I have said on this thread I am not advocating augmentation with another ID, I pose replacing the OH SO MANY ones we have today with one standard ID used for many processes. This is reduction not augmentation. This is about eliminating redundnacy and improving productivity.

Oh, we have been aware for at least a decade or 3 that one of the seeling points was slated to be the convenience and reduction in number of ID's. Nothing new on that point.

Your claim that I want "increasingly powerful and intrusive bureaucracy" is simply false. I want less intrusiveness in that my ID will notbe stolen AGAIN! I do not seek any more power for an ID than it deserves, that being the act of properly identitfying its owner accurately. Are you really against such a thing? If so, WHY? Afraid of personal responsibility are we????

Glad to be wrong about you and bureaucracy. Actually, I think we have sufficient means to identify folks accurately currently. Particularly if enforced.

I resent your allegation about fear of personal responsibility. Little could be further from the truth.

Tyranny is not fun. Sloppiness in the bureaucratic system affords more room for innocent folks to escape tyranny a bit longer; enjoy some of their freedom birthright a bit longer.

Conservative human nature wants to see people held to account for their own choices and actions. I am one such person. Are you?

Certainly I prefer to see people held to account for their own choices and actions. But not always or even primarily by the bureaucracy.

1. Families need strengthened to the point that folks are held to account powerfully and decisively within the context of their families and their family values and effective attachments. THAT SINGLE ISSUE would dramatically solve the problem of personal responsibility.

2. For the last 200 years, whenever statistics have been kept, whenever church attendance has increased, crime has gone down. Strengthening the value, viability and practice of Judeo/Christian values would dramatically increase the degree of personal accountability to a far Higher and more thoroughly effective Power than the bureaucracy. Only Holy Spirit searches the intents of the heart and motivates folks to behave according to His standard accordingly.

Bureaucratic based tyranny tends to increase the surface, public conformities that are more obvious. It tends to drive evil, corruption etc. underground, not decrease it. Evidence of Germany, China and Russia would indicate tyranny tends to increase evil dramatically. Personal responsibility gets shredded more thoroughly and more dramatically as folks increasingly blame the rules and the system--often with good cause.

[BlueStateDepression]

Well you can believe this nation is hilteresque if you want to. You will grow out of that eventually.

Oh, we have been aware for at least a decade or 3 that one of the seeling points was slated to be the convenience and reduction in number of ID's. Nothing new on that point.

Nothing to oppose on that point either huh? See that yet?

If you think we have the means to accurately identify people today then could you please explain all the idenity theft that takes place today? What exactly would need to be enforced that isn't causing this problem?

If personal respobsibility can be more accurately assigned thru a better ID then what is th point opposing it when you support such an act? What is the alternative?

I do not agree that proper ID equates to tyranny.

Our constitution outlines the way in which personal responsibility is judicially handled in society. Here is the reason why it was done that way.

1. Families need strengthened to the point that folks are held to account powerfully and decisively within the context of their families and their family values and effective attachments. THAT SINGLE ISSUE would dramatically solve the problem of personal responsibility.

You describe SHARIA law here wether you care to see that or not. I agree families need strengthened but the only way that can be done is for people to hold themselves accountable for their actions within the family. I do not subscrbe to the idea that one can socially engineer quality family values.

While I find many of the teachings in the christian religion valuable I do not agree that forcing religion or its values is a proper way forward. Fallujah is a good example, so is tehrahn. Quality morality is contained within the bible but it is not exclusive to it nor is it the reason for it.

I do not need a bible to tell me not to steal. I know not to steal because I do not want things stolen from me. Same morality, same quality, and religion was not the player that brought it, though it plays by the same rules.

Bureaucratic based tyranny

Sharia law is exactly that. Vatican is exactly that.( the assanine opposition to condoms when aids runs rampant is an example of what I mean by that). People should have quality morality because they want to and because it is the right thing to do towards fellow man, not because a book says to have it or a religion or pastor or cleric says to have it.

When one truly beleives in personal responsibility there is noone else to blame.