Duke Rape Case Defense: Throw Out DA Nifong and Photo ID

ABC ^ | May 1, 2006 | CHRIS CUOMO, ERIC AVRAM, and LARA SETRAKIAN

[Publius22]

Is it common for the prosecutor trying a case to be questioned under oath by the defense? I'm not a lawyer, but that seems out of place.

I was referring to the detective as the lead investigator, not Nifong. The defense can't question the prosecutor. But, I have the same concern as you - Nifong, it would appear, is essentially the lead investigator in this case and can't be questioned.

[OakOak]

**** I ASK YOU ALL,, IS NIFONG SMOKING CRACK?? ******


Ref: Timeline

Not only is the neighbor on news video saying the women arrived at 11:50 and entered the house at 11:55p BUT

The Second Stripper SAYS THEY STARTED DANCING AT MIDNIGHT!!!
and this coincides with the Defense's pictures !!

Nifong is looney.. Something is wrong with the man - period.

"The accuser's version of events is laid out in court documents: She and the other stripper, Kim Roberts, had been hired by a lacrosse team captain and were each paid $400. The accuser arrived at 11:30 p.m., joining Roberts at a house rented by three lacrosse co-captains. They began to dance — Roberts said in interviews that THEY BEGAN THEIR ROUTINE AROUND MIDNIGHT — but the men became "excited and aggressive," and one threatened to sexually assault them with a broomstick. The women were frightened and decided to leave, but when they arrived at their car, one of the men apologized and persuaded them to go back in."

Source: http://ktla.trb.com/news/la-na-lacrosse30apr30,0,5838244.story?coll=ktla-news-1

[OakOak]

This is not new, but WRAL didn't pull it out of their as**


Duke Lacrosse Investigation Timeline

POSTED: 7:56 pm EDT April 16, 2006
UPDATED: 12:32 pm EDT April 18, 2006

The following timeline is based on public information obtained by WRAL concerning major events and developments in the Duke lacrosse rape investigation.

March 13

Approximately 11:53 p.m.
An exotic dancer, who later tells police she was raped, sodomized, beaten and strangled for 30 minutes, arrives at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd., where she has an appointment to perform at a party in which members of Duke University's men's lacrosse team are present.

March 14

Midnight
The alleged rape victim, as well as a second exotic dancer, begin to dance for a group of men, according to a time-stamped photo obtained by attorneys representing members of the Duke lacrosse team.

http://www.wral.com/news/8751837/detail.html

[OakOak]

. . . . . (( WARNING: Get TISSUES before Reading this! ))

............ . .Saddest story I've every heard:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1628090/posts

[uncitizen]

If DA, Nifong, had way back on March 15th, a toxicology report indicating the victim had been drugged, then the prudent thing to do would be to test all the Lacrosse players, including the black player

Very good point. There is a difference btwn being "drugged" and "having drugs in her system". This would mean something like a mickey/rufee (whatever), wouldn't it? If she were "drugged", then how could she know for sure the black player wasn't one of her rapists? I think it was a mistake even if they do have proof she was drugged to bring this up. And as i recall, Nifong said nothing about her being drugged until they got the idea found out about the pictures showing she was drunk or under the influence of something.

...this case was handled totally backwards. The investigators should've investigated and checked out stories, gathered evidence, done interviews and handed it to the DA.

Nifong tried to say this had nothing to do with his election. I say he's full of it. In any other case high profile case, we see the investigators/police. Sometimes they talk quite a bit about their case, sometimes they make one statement and say they won't be talking about it anymore. How often do we even see the DA this early in a case? Most times we see him/her only when the trial is set to begin altho we may know his name. I believe Greta interviewed him the day after the election. It was obvious she caught him off guard when she asked him if we would be trying the case himself. He hesitated. Then said 'yes'.

I'm worried about this jury. The community opinion has already been tainted and people have staked out their opinions i would guess. One OJ type person on the jury and the future is over for those LAX guys.

[SirJohnBarleycorn]

Regarding whether Nifong hinted there was a toxicology report that would show a date rape drug.

This from the Newsweek story you linked:

"When the case first broke in the press, Nifong, a white man who is running for election in a racially mixed county, hinted to NEWSWEEK that blood and urine tests of the woman would reveal the presence of a date-rape drug."

I wonder whether this is just sloppy editing by Newsweek, or has the Newsweek reporter Susannah Meadows now changed her story, because that is NOT what I recall seeing Susannah Meadows tell Fox.

I remember seeing her on Fox at that time, and I recall her explaining the "hint" by saying NOT that Nifong claimed he had a toxicology report showing a date rape drug, but rather Nifong hinted to her "suppose I had a witness that would say..."

I was not the only Freeper who saw that interviiew. Another poster, Protect the Bill of Rights, saw the same interview I saw:

---

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1620719/posts?page=130#130

"The Newsweek chick said Nifong said [paraphrased] "What would you say if I had a witness who saw her arrive sober, took a drink and then blah, blah, blah.."
I assumed he was talking about that stellar witness-Kim."

I'm glad the Newsweak reporterette finally explained what the "hint" was she had been talking about.

It seems clear that Nifong was talking about witness testimony, and not a toxicology report. Maybe Nifong has a toxicology report somewhere hidden in his back pocket, but he was not alluding to such a report in making his "hint" to Newsweak.

[uncitizen]

If Nifong is bluffing about the toxicology report he's only hurting himself, because come trial time, he won't have anything to show for it.

These kinds of bluffs are the what defense attorneys do, not prosecutors. And i do think it's a bluff.

He's cornered himself. Even if Kim decides not to testify (for one reason or another), Nifongs already promised to bring this case to trial on Greta's show (and i think he's promised the NBP's too). How's he gonna get out of that one?

[uncitizen]

I hope the defense is very careful about who they allow to sit on the jury. Especially since Nifongs meeting with the NBP's. They could plant a runaway juror to hang the trial. Why in the world did Nifong meet with the NBP's anyway? Do we have an idea?

[SirJohnBarleycorn]

March 13

Approximately 11:53 p.m. An exotic dancer, who later tells police she was raped, sodomized, beaten and strangled for 30 minutes, arrives at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd

No, WRAL didn't pull it out of their a**, but that's the DEFENSE version (we know the AV's version is she arrived about 11:30). Note that 11:53 is an estimate ("approximately"), not an exact time, indicating that the defense does not have a time-stamped photo or other evidence pinning this minute down with certainty.

While it is possible that the father invented out of thin air the fact of the phone call, IMO it is very likely he did not, and if that call took place at 11:52 or otherwise about when the defense is saying the AV arrived, that would blow a big hole in the AV's and prosecution's timeline.

I can easily believe that Kim was sitting in her car at 11:53 when the AV is dropped off at the house. If the girls were supposed to start at 11:30, then Kim was probably in her car on her cellphone trying to find out why the other stripper hadn't yet shown up and whether she was still coming at all.

So it may be the case that when the AV arrived, the AV and Kim sat in Kim's car together from 11:53 until 12:00 getting to know each other and planning what their routine would be (and perhaps even taking drugs or alcohol). Or it may be that Kim and the AV went into the house together right away, at 11:54. It seems to me more likely that they sat in Kim's car together for only a couple minutes or so, because there was time before they started their routine at 12:00 for the boys to pour them a couple of mixed drinks, for the AV to spill half of hers and for the AV to drink all of Kim's drink (according to Kim).

Either way, if the defense can establish that the phone call between the AV and her father did take place, and if it did take place around when they say the AV arrived at 11:53, then that would be a major blow against any attempt by Nifong to move a 30-minute (or 30-minute seeming) beating and rape back to the 11:30-12:00 time frame.

[Jezebelle]

Which is why Nifong should recuse himself. The entire matter could cause a mistrial.

[maggief]

Someone involved in investigating this case is not happy with Nifong.


Chalmers, perhaps?


The Durham Police Department issued a new general order on photo lineups in February.

http://www.herald-sun.com/durham/4-730063.html

[maggief]

In other news ...


GOO-GOO UNION

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http://www.nypost.com/gossip/pagesix/pagesix_u.htm

[JLS]

Is it common for the prosecutor trying a case to be questioned under oath by the defense? I'm not a lawyer, but that seems out of place.
_________________________________________________________

It is very rare for an advocate on either side to be called to testify, but I believe it has happened. I think a judge would require a serious showing of why they must be called, but Nifong has certainly tried to put himself in that position. I could certainly see him put under oath for the suppression of the ID hearing.

[ladyjane]

Reading that scenario got me thinking. What if...Crystal was late because she had an earlier party where she made a fair amount of money doing one-on-ones and when she arrived she told Kim about the earlier event.

True to form, Kim immediately saw $$$ and knew that Crystal probably had at least some of that money still on her. What if Kim drugged Crystal as part of a plan to steal the money? Soon after they started dancing Kim pretended to be insulted because she knew Crystal couldn't keep dancing and she wanted to get out of there.

Kim's plan was to somehow get her hands on the money and either leave Crystal at the house or dump her somewhere.

[OakOak]

That could be very well have happened. Roberts would throw her Grandma under a train for $$$.

Crystal did initially claim to have a lot of money, AND to show the mindset and environment these strippers live it ...
I read last night where Roberts thought THAT night that Crystal was "hustling" her in order to keep the larger amount of money from the Duke kids.

You may be on to something there..

[Waterfall]

Here's an article from the university newspaper (includes only first page.) It doesn't mention race.

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:WWdinnF7ZjMJ:www.student.richmond.edu/publications/collegian/current/archives/02Feb2006/page_1_news.pdf

[OakOak]

I can easily believe that Kim was sitting in her car at 11:53 when the AV is dropped off at the house. If the girls were supposed to start at 11:30, then Kim was probably in her car on her cellphone trying to find out why the other stripper hadn't yet shown up and whether she was still coming at all.

Could you imagine, if this was a standard case (without the race hysteria) with a neutral jury pool, the uphill battle a prosecutor would be facing, if a neighbor (unfriendly to the suspects) backs up their timeline in a on-camera, videotaped interview AND the "only sober person at the party" - and a state's witness also backs up the suspects timeline (according to the LA times) and there are timestamped photos that also match this timeline.

In most cases, any one of these would be reasonable doubt when considered with the ATM camera video and dorm room scan
alibi.

The Jury pool is the reason Nifong doesn't give a crap what the evidence is. If one considers that, it's not so shocking that he didn't want to see the Defense's evidence.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

didn't Geragos call the prosecutor or AG as a witness in the michael jackson matter? Or maybe he only tried, I can't remember exactly, but I am sire there were media reports and talking-head discussion about it......

[OakOak]

Maggief - you may be right on!

SirJohnBarleycorn - Nifong has blocked himself in to some extent. He claims the Gang-rape and beating occured AFTER the women went out to their car and then returned to the House.

The Neighbor, Bissey, has times on that too. In his first statement he's deadly accurate on so many issues and he provides a time there too. Further, Kim Roberts has said they didn't start dancing until around Midnight too.

It's not like Nifong has the option of claiming the Gang-rape/beating happened soon after the dancers arrived, because the accuser reports the attack was after they returned to the house, Roberts verifies that they do return to the house (talked into coming back in) and the neighbor Bissey provides a timestamp for that RETURN. In fact, one of the only undisputed things in everyone's account is that the Dancers go to their car and then decide to return to the house to finish dancing.

The brutality of the event as reported by the AV coupled with the timing of the attack also make the smiling photo as she departs the house more damning to the DA's case.

It almost seems more believable for Nifong to argue that Reade Seligmann participated in the attack after his ATM ride and carry out. That doesn't fit either, but faced with the 2nd strippers indicating they started dancing around midnight and state's contention that the rape happened and then Crystal bascially fled the scene - that's really tough to accept with Seligmann's phone activity, short walk, cab ride, ATM visit, and dining.

[JLS]

The Durham Police Department issued a new general order on photo lineups in February.
_______________________________________________________

I wonder if the IDs possibly went like this:

1. Picture B, that's probably one, it looks like one without his moustache. I am 90%. [Investigator interjects, we can not arrest nor try someone on a 90% ID.]

2. Picture C, that one, I am 100% sure.

3. Picture E, that is another one, I am 100% sure.

And then they stop. This sequence would undermine the the IDs even more. If they coached her that he 90% ID was not good enough and stopped after she picked a third, it was a terrible photo array.

The press always reports it as if he IDed two but was not completely sure of a third. But the sequence of these IDs would tell us a lot.

Vn_survivor_67-68 I did not follow the Jackson case in any detail, but I remember something in the Jackson/Peterson time from like that. [I followed neither of those cases in detail.]