Lacrosse players face old charges (Nifong retaliates against Duke Lax)

News & Observer ^ | April 25, 2006 | Benjamin Niolet and Joseph Neff

[abb]

DURHAM - District Attorney Mike Nifong plans to reinstate misdemeanor charges against a half-dozen Duke lacrosse players, saying a March 13 party where a woman reported a rape broke the deals that the players made with prosecutors.

Nifong's decision could affect players who, before the party, had entered agreements in which prosecutors would dismiss the cases if the players performed community service and stayed out of trouble for six months or a year. Among the first to have his charges reinstated was David Evans, one of the team captains who lived at 610 N. Buchanan Blvd., the site of the party in which lacrosse players hired two women from escort services to dance. One of the women told police that she was raped by three men in a bathroom.

Two players, Collin Finnerty, 19, and Reade William Seligmann, 20, were charged last week with first-degree rape, first-degree sex offense and first-degree kidnapping. Their attorneys say the men are innocent.

On Monday, an attorney for Seligmann filed a motion seeking information that would help attack the credibility of the woman, the only person, according to the defense filing, who says a rape occurred. The motion seeks information about the woman, including criminal charges, mental and emotional problems the woman has suffered as well as social services, probation, child protective services and victim's advocacy records.

Today, Finnerty is due in a Washington court where prosecutors in an assault charge are considering whether to revoke a deferred prosecution agreement similar to those affecting other players in Durham.

According to court records, 16 players were charged in the past three years with misdemeanor charges in Durham including noise violations, public urination and alcohol violations. The deals placed the men on probation for either six months or a year.

[El Gran Salseron]

So, if I rent a house to you and you have a wild party with drinking and strippers then I am at fault, right?

You're one sick puppy. You should see a vet very soon.

Oh and BTW, stick to your pigeon English. Your Spanish isn't cutting it. :-)

Those online translators are more often wrong than they are right and should never be trusted.

[Dukie07]

If AV's dad is pre-Alzheimers (not sure where that info came from) - then his behavior is pretty typical. One of my neighbors was being investigated for a DOJ job, and the investigator came to my home. My mother, an Alzheimer's patient, talked to the investigator. (This was before we had a clue what was going on with mom.) Questions he asked her about whether or not she knew if there had ever been any spousal abuse, et. turned into a phone call to me that "the police were just here and husband had beat the daylights out of wife."

[connectthedots]

I did say "if you are not guilty".

Any guilty person who turns down a two year sentence at the risk of 25 years is a fool; especially in the example you gave.

My comments were primarily about misdemeanors. I was once unlawfully arrested for a minor misdemanor and had committed no crime. Bailed myself out, and then showed up for an arraignment for which I was not given notice (they were trying to screw with me. You'll understand why when I make a post tomorrow). Showed up for the arraignment, and was the first case called, and the deputy prosecutor wasn't yet in the courtroom.

Asked the judge why I wasn't given notice of the hearing and why the prosecutor wasn't in the courtroom. Told me to take a seat and then called my case when this idiot dumb blonde deputy prosecutor arrived. Judge asked me to enter a plea and I informed him I wouldn't because there had not been a judicial determination of probable cause, to which I was entitled prior to entering a plea. The judge tried to get me to take a public defender and I informed him that the prosecutor and the judge would have to deal directly with me.

While the judge and I were having a calm, polite discussion about criminal procedure, a sheriff's deputy interrupted a comment I was making to tell me to be quiet. I turned to her and told her she was interfering with a court proceeding for no justifiable reason and that in doing so, she was attempting to obstruct justice; and that unless the judge had a problem with our discussion, she should keep her mouth shut. There were gasps in the courtroom, but the judge didn't say a word.

The judge reluctantly agreed to schedule a probable cause hearing two weeks later, in which I would have a right to subpoena witnesses. After the hearing, I tols the dumb blonde that she would be smart to drop the charge, or i would make her life, and the lives of about 50 other people, miserable; including a trial that wouild last at least four weeks. She accused me of threatening her; and I agreed that it was a threat, but a legal one.

The very next day, the court mailed an order to me dismissing the complaint with prejudice. I suppose the corrupt judes in my county realized the corruption would be exposed if my case went to trial; and that they didn't want to subpoena the governor and chief justice of the state supreme court. They knew I could force them to take the stand, and they wanted no part of that.

Not saying everyone should do what I did, because not every person knows the law and court rules as well as me.

Personally, I don't have a problem with plea deals if the accused is actualy guilty; and yes, most of them are. The real problems are the coerced plea deals with innocent people in an effort to avoid potential civil rights claims against the state or local government. If you claim that doesn't happen on a regular basis, you are naive or lying.

[connectthedots]

I have prosecuted so many strippers that I cannot attend a bachelor party anymore.

If I were to attend a bachelor party and strippers showed up or the group went to a strip bar; I'd leave in a heartbeat. Having strippers demonstrates a serious lack of class in all circumstances; much less a bachelor party.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

"....and strippers showed up,,,,,,,I'd leave in a heartbeat"

Might very well be exactly what Reade Seligmann and no less than one other LAX player did!.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

"I have prosecuted so many strippers that I cannot attend a bachelor party anymore."

Please provide the most complete list of the crimes that "strippers" routinely find themselves in court for (NOT what they plea down to, but the original charges). I am especially interested in extortion, blackmail, and other crimes of dishonesty in addition to prostitution, drugs, conspiracy, etc.

Tks in advance to either or both of you.....

[Jezebelle]

Then somebody needs to tell Wendy Murphy and some of the other shriekers, because they seem to think the broom thing is a done deal, lol!

[toldyou]

Once again, no way....not for 12,400 students!

[Jezebelle]

I would be extremely surprised to learn the Seligmanns and the finnertys are trying to buy her off. It doesn't add up.

[Law is not justice but process]

Please provide the most complete list of the crimes that "strippers" routinely find themselves in court for"

My top 10

1. Possession of Ecstasy

2. Possession of Crack cocaine

3. Possession of Powder Cocaine

4. Possession of Crystal Meth

5. Trafficking of any of the above

6. Assault and Battery of a High and Aggravated Nature (usually involving another stripper and a mutual boyfriend and either a knife or a can of mace)

7. Breach of Trust (usually employee theft involving a day job at some sort of clothing store or taking a roommate's clothes when she moves out (and, yes, the roommate is always another stripper))

8. Prostitution (not that it is all that uncommon, just that it is hard to catch them)

9. Indecent exposure or public nudity (it is hard to get that all-over tan if you wear a top on your bikini)

10. Child Neglect (strippers never seem to hire reliable babysitters)

That list is only slightly toungue-in-cheek. In all seriousness, the drugs are the primary source of arrests. All those strippers are stoned when they perform - it is hard to do the things that get good tips when they are sober. They also get in fights a lot and fight over and/or steal clothes a lot. It is an odd lifestyle, and one that is often correlated with substance abuse.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

Yhanks.....is blackmail, extortion, conspiracy, and otherwise grifting/robbing/fleecing/setting up their clients not as common as some think?

I guess "stripper/dancer" sort of limits the scope, but I was thinking of similarly seedy associated occupations as well.....planned crimes involving an intended "mark" and associates of the female....really felonious stuff....or does it go unreported a lot because the mark is married or otherwise disinclined to pursue it?

[bvw]

Sure. Scale up. Biz des it all the time. (Biz = business).

(Or any Army cook. Truckloads of potatoes, dumpsters full of liver. Still -- scale.)

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

Shepard Smith just said on FNC that the accuser in this case pulled the same crap in 1996 and that the 3 accused then were never tried.....he said it was an AP story

[lastchance]

Willie Gary became a high profile personal injury lawyer when he won a case against FPL on behalf of a family that was trapped in their car by a fallen light pole. If I remember correctly several members tried to leave the car and were killed. This happened out in Indiantown about 20 or so years ago. He won megabucks from FPL and that money gave him and his practice a reputation for winning big money cases.

[bvw]

Si un a padre se renta a su hijo -- now that's pigeon spanish ;-). If a father rents a house to his 18 year old son, whom he also employs full time in the family business and the son has a wild party with his co-workers that causes economic liabilty (say drunk party goers pull down the neighbors fence, destroy tens of thousands in landscaping, etc. etc.) -- yeah, I'd say a legal theory can be developed that passes some liability to the muy rico father. Why? Because the father knew the son had some history of such behaviour, and failed to act upon it -- even when the neighbors had complained.

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

must be true....

Accuser in Duke lacrosse case previously reported rape
The Charlotte Observer - 20 minutes ago

DURHAM, N.C. - The woman who says she was raped by three members of Duke's lacrosse team also told police 10 years ago she was raped by three men, filing a 1996 complaint claiming she had been assaulted three years earlier when she was 14.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/14445204.htm

[Vn_survivor_67-68]

it needed its own thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1622860/posts

[bvw]

Just remembered something -- I was doing some substitute teaching between contracts a few months ago. At the high school of this medium size district there were staff -- full-time non-uniformed staff -- whose role was to patrol around the school and local areas of town where students might be found. Not a truant officer, just watchpersons whose job was to anticipate trouble *before* it happened, and either intercept the wandering students, or act like a sort of forward air-controller who dispatches other resources to the location. In other words these staff people were prepositioned responsible adults, ready and able to act responsibily as the need arose.

On a number of occassions these watchers did preempt out-of-district drug dealers before they could get their trade started near the school. I imagine that such a watchman or woman patrolling the Duke-owned house that house the Duke-enrolled sports team might have stopped the young female nightime entrepreneurs before they got in, before they played at "getting off", and before the whole situation got out of control.

On the other hand, such staff at today's Duke may well have cut out early that night on a pub crawl. Seems to be a region of depleted supply of responsible adults.

[toldyou]

Vn: I was looking forward to your thread and rather disappointed to see what the mod wrote, but here's the real reason:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1622826/posts

[Law is not justice but process]

Street walkers sometimes roll their clients, but strippers generally can get their money for services rendered (in the back rooms into which we can seldom get undercover agents). If they rolled someone in one of the clubs, the cops might come and no one would benefit from that. I cannot say strippers never rip off their clients. If you (the hypothetical you, that is) took a stripper home for some extracurriculars, and she rolled you, would you be anxious to call the police?

WARNING, another war story to follow: I remember one guy who inherited a lot of money and went on the Mother-of-all-Benders. He hired strippers to do anything and everything and he bought and tried every drug in existence. A hotel maid found him unresponsive on a bed with a note on his chest from his latest stripper-cum-hooker. She said something along the lines of "we were having a good time, but you passed out on me. PS, the rest of your heroin is on a plate under the side table." Now that guy was embarrassed. However, the stripper neither stole the rest of his money nor took his heroin. She only took what she "earned." I guess there are a few honorable ones out there!