Cops, Mace, and a Victim of Circumstance...

Me | 03/27/06 | sit-rep

[sit-rep]

Many of thread, and many of discussion, have been centered on Cops, and the likes and dis-likes there of. Whether they be Constitutional issues or just plain abuse, to the cop being the victim in any givin situation. Well, I just got out of jail on bond this early afternoon, and I am reluctantly posting this thread looking for any legal advice some upper level legal genious may offer...

Yersterday, Sunday, I was on my way home from layin' about 90 yards of carpeting in a home down in the Motor. I looked in my review and a cop was on my rear, and as I noticed him, he turned on his disco lights to pull me over...I was doing 5 miles over the limit on a four lane. He asked for my DL and other papers, and I got on the phone to call the wife to ask her where her registration was. Cop told me to get out of the vehicle and hang up the phone. I asked him why he pulled me over, and he came up with the famous..."I saw you move in your vehicle suspisciously and thought you were trying to hide something"...anybody ever see what a back window of a 99 Durango looks like? You can't see in it very well...

Anyway, he put me in the back of the patrol car, and asked if I have nothing to hide, do I mind if he looks over my vehicle. I told him to "knock yourself out"..."You may even find a baggie of gummy bears under the seat"... again, it's the wife's car(kids and all have broke it in good) So, super cop and his partner commenced to tearing that truck APART!

Few minutes later, they came back and he instructed me to turn so he could apply the cuffs. I asked him why. He informed me that the mace my wife had in her glove box was a 5 year felony, and I am under arrest.

The mace, my wife's father gave her 22 years ago to put in her glove box of her first car..."just incase you need it..." I dated my wife for a year and a half, and we broke up for a few years, and when we got back together, she still carried the mace in her glove box...to the day, married for 13 years, three vehicles since our marriage, that mace has been in her cars, and we thought nothing of it.

The legal limit here in MI is 35 grams. This container she has is 105 grams. Arraignment this morining, thru closed circuit TV, the judge informed me of my rights, followed by the punishment of 5 years and a $25,000 fine...

The detective talked to the wife this AM to verify my story. He informed her of the law. She asked "when" was this law passed concerning the "amount" legally held by a Civilian. The Detective said "several years ago". My wife continued with "How much is several?...I have held that for over 22 years...I never seen any literature telling the population of legal quantities...etc etc etc. The detective was rather speechless and kinda shrugged according the the wife.

So, by next Tuesday, I need a little blessing from above, or I'm going to jail for up to five years...I'm sure some here would not care, but if any others may know of some legal angle I could use in my defense, I truly would be appreciative in your input.

[CobaltBlue]

last time i knew, permission to search the vehicle is not permission to search the glove box without specific consent or a warrant.

Another good one! This may be state-specific.

[sit-rep]

lol... Careful he's "out there" in cyber land! I have confidence, well, as much as I can. He indeed has offered more than what I stated as his initial reaction. Just mainly looking for more...you know, 1,000,000,000 heads may be better than two...

[sit-rep]

That's definitely potential help. thanks...

[sit-rep]

Just bake me a cake with a file in it!! ;)

[MileHi]

A speechless bump.

[CobaltBlue]

I have confidence, well, as much as I can.

My heart goes out to you. And your family.

[Dashing Dasher]

Larry,

Can you help!?

[GrandEagle]

1) Get a lawyer. (Sometimes a necessary evil)
2) If your state has a grand jury system, try and address them when the case is presented.

Just curious, wouldn't this be considered an ex post facto law since she has had it for so long?

Article 1, section 8
No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law Law shall be passed.

An ex post facto law is a law passed after the occurrence of an event or action which retrospectively changes the legal consequences of the event or action.

Not that the Constitution has ever gotten in the way of good law enforcement.

Good Luck,
GE

[Crispus Attucks Patriot]

Never EVER cooperate with police if you're even THOUGHT to be suspected of anything by them.

Even if you're 1000% innocent of any remotely perceived offense.

See, their job isn't to help YOU or to get you out of any possible jam. Some will even make things up or use deceit to get you to admit to some "violation"...all of which is perfectly legal according to the SCOTUS. Their job is to build whatever case they can against you and turn it over to the prosecutor

He'll decide if whatever they say you did or didn't do warrants further action. He's at least been taught about trhe constitution. Most cops, who ironically are sworn to uphold said document, I have trouble believing can even READ it.

So ALWAYS avail yourself of your constitutional protectrions and rights. never sign any waivers to your Miranda warnings, and always, ALWAYS demand to see a lawyer before you say a single word.

[gondramB]

1. The cop may be wrong...Is it really mace. it sounds like a private citizen cannot legally possess mace in any quantity in Michigan.

>>MCL 750.224d You can carry Self Defense spray , but only if it is either: Not more than 35 grams of CS gas; or A solution containing not more than 2% oleoresin capsicum (pepper spray) and is used in the protection of your person or property which would justify the use of physical force. It cannot be sold to a minor MCL 750.224d , under the statute and according to an Attorney General's opinion, a private citizen cannot possess tear gas or mace.) State Police web site.<<

http://www.packing.org/state/michigan/

2. Put me down for $50 if you start a defense fund. I'll also raise funds on my blog if you need it.

[gondramB]

"
So ALWAYS avail yourself of your constitutional protectrions and rights. never sign any waivers to your Miranda warnings, and always, ALWAYS demand to see a lawyer before you say a single word."


I worked my way through college working for the police. They are decent people with some bad apples as in any profession.

Civil conversation and a positive attitude goes a long way with cops just like with other people.

But, again you should politely say you'd like to check with a lawyer before your person, car or home is searched, in spite of your desire to cooperate with the police.

[mrsmith]

The old gas definitely needs to be tested if the stop can't be thrown out.

It's going to be difficult to find a place where that can be done.

Rough break for you.

[absolootezer0]

Another good one! This may be state-specific.

i'm in MI also. i ran into this in '97. i had given cop permission to search my car, he came back and asked specific permission for glove box, trunk and arm rest console. he told me that these were places he needed seperate permission to search aside from searching the main part of the car.

[sit-rep]

Indeed it is "CS" gas. The container it is in resembles those carried by LEOs complete with leather case and metal clip to fasten to your belt. This one is about 8" in length, slightly bigger than current police issue.

[Crispus Attucks Patriot]

I know there's good ones and bad ones. Unfortunately, I grew up in what is commonly known as "the hood".

Most cops there treated everyone the same, disrespectfully. And no, I'm not against the cops, nor do I think the TRUE criminals from the inner city get a bad deal. I mean those gangstaz and hoodlums live close to US, what makes you think we want 'em there. But a lot of the cops I've seen in action just saw another Black face, not a person. (the Black cops, too.)

I mean, I'd like to work in federal law enforcement or prosecution some day, so I ain't anti-cop. I just know how the system operates. Their main job is to arrest violators, and if you're caught up in any adverse situation with them , you don't say ANYTHING until you lawyer up.

[gondramB]

"Indeed it is "CS" gas. The container it is in resembles those carried by LEOs complete with leather case and metal clip to fasten to your belt. This one is about 8" in length, slightly bigger than current police issue."

The law is a funny thing. When I was a teenager I has a canister of CS gas go off in my pocket at Six Flags over Georgia. I didn't wear underwear back then and it got very embarrassing as I tried to get washed off and minimze the burning. The security guards laughed at me.

Today it would probably be "Georgia man arrested in chemical attack at 6 Flags."

[sit-rep]

lol...

Years ago I got it from a rambunctious LEO. Had it on my hands and took a leak later on...I can relate, but I'm sure your's was worse...

[gondramB]

"But a lot of the cops I've seen in action just saw another Black face, not a person. (the Black cops, too.) "

Even in Atlanta, with black cops and a black police chief and a black mayor that seems to be true all too often.

With the Georgia Tech cops where I worked, it was a bit different. They were really concerned about student versus non-student.

Black students got treated like white students or asian students. But teens from the nearby Techwood housing project often did not get the same benefit of the doubt if they came on campus.

[Little Ray]

Dude, you screwed up when you allowed him to search your car. NEVER, EVER allow the cops to search your car withoug a warrant. The police are NOT your friend.

[sit-rep]

They were going to search my vehicle whether I gave them permission or not. All they have to do is say I was belligerent and that gives them card blanc. I said go ahead because I did not think I had anything to hid. I thought about them planting evidence, but hey...they did not need to this time....