Posted on 03/20/2006 1:01:21 PM PST by doc30
My take on this is that it applies only to Pet Dealers. Rescue groups are non-profit groups that ask for "donations" to offset their costs.
Not a lawyer, I just like to pretend I wasted 100k and 8 years of my life on FR...
Got an unbiased, objective source for this (that PETA is behind Dog Law Legislation) assertion? Links?
http://www.peta.org/alert/automation/AlertItem.asp?id=683
This is the way American Politics works. Like-minded people form a group like PETA and agitate for legislation. Isn't this self-evident? Breeders have the AKC (and a few other breed registries), of course.
I would not want to purchase a dog that was NOT raised in a home. My dog will live in my home and I want him to be home friendly.
I heard a well known Retriever trainer comment at the Sport Show in Milwaukee a couple of years ago, "Some people say that hunting dogs should live only in a kennel. I don't agree. All of my dogs -- whether my own, or guest dogs at my place for training -- spend time in the house with me on a rotating several times a week. We are blessed with the companionship of a dog for such a short time (referring to the fact that large dogs have a life span of only 9-15 years), why would we want to waste any of those years by keeping them confined to a kennel in the barn, or garage."
I agree.
No dog ever comes with a guarantee, but a dog bred from a show dog breeder, comes with health certificates on both parents. CERF for eyes, OFA for hips and elbows, heart clearances etc.
That's for my breed, others may have different tests.
Your post is interesting because it seems to assume that it's a tragedy your dog wasn't bred. I don't think it is.
There's a lot of good dogs, they don't all have to breed. Most shouldn't, most should just be good pets. If breeding were the ~exception~ to the rule, we wouldn't kill so many dogs at the pound every day.
You did.
I love dog shows, I love show dogs. But in the realm of talking about responsible breeding, constant attention needs to be paid to keeping the breeds strong, healthy, and capable of doing the job the standard describes.
We (my wife & I) try to do just that. Problems do sometimes materialize. The best you can do is take the dog back; help the owner if they opt to keep the dog (paying the medical bills up to the purchase price); and, most importantly, don't repeat the breeding.
Show dogs have had their share of problems, and getting a pup from a 'show dog' breeder is no guarantee that it does not come with faults caused by their breeding.
agreed.
It's a tough job trying to design the perfect dog, and people have made a lot of mistakes in trying... That's all.
The sport is probably doomed anyway. Zoning laws, leash laws (try doing water training at a state park), and cloning (I'm serious) will probably kill traditional breeding.
I'm more optimistic about the future than you are, I think there will always be good dogs and good dog sport... People just tend to make things more and more complicated the more we try to 'improve' things, don't we?
This is the way American Politics works. Like-minded people form a group like PETA and agitate for legislation. Isn't this self-evident? Breeders have the AKC (and a few other breed registries), of course.
The only thing self-evident is the level of dishonesty breeders will sink to keep breeding and selling animals which are already over-crowding rescues, animal shelters and pounds.
The link you provided was for Pennsylvannia anti-animal cruelty law, not the Florida pet dealer licensing law. I quote:
Current Pennsylvania law allows convicted animal abusers to get away with little more than a slap on the wrist, as cruelty to animals is only considered a misdemeanor of the second degree. The Pennsylvania House Judiciary Committee is currently considering House Bill (HB) 709, an Act Concerning Cruelty to Animals. This bill, if passed, would increase the penalty of willful and malicious killing, maiming, or poisoning of a dog or cat to a felony of the third degree and increase the maximum imprisonment from two to five years. Courts would also be given the authority to prohibit convicted offenders from owning or possessing any animals for a certain period of time and to order a presentence mental evaluation.Perhaps next time you'd like to provide a link to an unbiased objective source that says that PETA is behind the pet dealer law being proposed in Florida as was asserted.
Why'd we get moved to chat?
Well, I guess cuz it ain't about makin' world peace... ;~D
Fine, produce some facts that back up your assertion that hobby breeders (conformation breeders) have done what you stated.
susie
Not at all. (It is not safe to make assumptions.) It is only a personal tragedy for us because we really wished that we had had a puppy from our first Golden after she died. We didn't get another dog for a long time after we lost her because we thought there would never be such a great dog and that we would always be comparing her to the new one.
However, once we adopted Max from GRROW, we reluctantly admitted that he is even BETTER than the dog who died (although probably not quite as smart.) Well, he's more headstrong, at least. LOL.
But, we have the same problem with Max as we had with Terra. Strangers come up to us on the street and ask to breed their dog with ours. We apologize and say "no" because he is nuetered too. Of course, deep down inside I'm glad because I wouldn't want my gorgeous and sweet dog mixed up with theirs anyway! LOL.
I've known a lot more Goldens since we got our first. And I know that my original vet was right. I don't want to say that there are too many (how can there be too many Goldens?) but there are a lot of them to choose from and there will always be another one available. And he/she will be just as sweet, and just as smart, and just as loving, and just as beautiful, even though he/she will be different.
You should see all the beautiful Goldens that come to the GRROW reunions! A couple hundred Goldens milling around in the same room, or the same enclosure, with their happy "parents" is a sight to behold! Of course, I think that mine is the prettiest!
GRROW has found loving "forever" homes for more than 1000 Goldens since its founding. That is an endeavor that should be encouraged. Believe me, I had to endure a screening from them that was akin to adopting a child.
Can't speak to Florida, only Pennsylvania -- where I live. Not trying to be dishonest, only trying to point to a comparable situation. PETA is very active lobbying in Harrisburg.
BTW, cool your jets.
Yeah, it's a conundrum.
susie
Oh yes. And follow up after the adoption. I had to sign papers that I would enroll in dog training and there was a financial incentive to make sure that I did it. I've had Max for nearly 4 years, and I still hear from his foster mom from time to time. And she is there for me if I need advice that my vet, trainer, or feed store cannot answer.
One time the phone rang and the President of GRROW was on the other end of the line.
"I've just received word that there is a stray Golden picked up in Mequon (my city). Is Max home?"
Yes, Max was home -- right at my knee.
Oh yes, another GRROW service is that all of the dogs are microchipped and registered to GRROW before adoption. So, if my dog wanders and is picked up, the recovering agency contacts GRROW -- not me! Then, I suppose I would have to provide a pretty good reason as to how my dog got loose before I got him back.
I realize that not all rescue agencies are "equal" and that GRROW is exceptional. They have received national awards for their work. But certainly, a service like theirs should not be discouraged by uneccessary fees and regulation.
Are you speaking of this post? Are you questioning that these assertions aren't true?
To: sissyjaneThat comment is rather irresponsible don't you think?Not at all! I'll say it again. Show people are responsible for turning many breeds into beautiful idiots!
Labradors, Setters and Goldens that wouldn't know a game bird if it flew right into them. Collies that are dumber than a bag of hair. Cocker Spaniels that are certifiably insane.
And that doesn't account for the structural problems created by show people in many many breeds of all types. Toys that cannot breed naturally and have to give birth by C section. Displastic hock-walking German Shepherds. Great Danes that break down under their own weight and don't have the hearts to power their oversized bodies.
Show people who breed for looks alone have nearly lost the instincts and attributes that made the breeds what they originally were. And I've been there. I showed my lab for a time. If I were in charge I'd require working achievement certificates on conformation dogs before they could be called 'champion'.
I don't know you, and I don't know what breed you show. It could be that you are not to be blamed, but I suspect you've heard these criticisms of what has happened to show dogs before.
81 posted on 03/20/2006 3:01:02 PM PST by HairOfTheDog
Please say I don't have to waste my time on this. It's common knowledge in dog circles that many breeds, including those listed above, have suffered the consequences of short sighted fads and myopic attention to style over substance, including the faults listed above.
Other dog people on this thread have concurred. It's not a condemnation of all breeders, merely a qualification to correct an earlier post that suggested dog show people were the assumed model of responsible breeding, when in fact, there's room for improvement even there, that's all.
Good post, thanks.... I agree with your sentiments.
>>Other dog people on this thread have concurred. It's not a condemnation of all breeders, merely a qualification to correct an earlier post that suggested dog show people were the assumed model of responsible breeding, when in fact, there's room for improvement even there, that's all.<<
Pardon me for saying this, but just because other people have concurred doesn't make it so. Why don't you post where you are getting this information from. Where is the study that says show breeders are responsible for breeding beautiful idiots????
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