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To: commish

Although Ripken may be the bigger star...Gwynn has the best credentials by far. You have to go back 50 years to find a hitter with as perfect a swing. One of the top two hitters of the last century and backed up by the stats. The man watched film all day and never stopped working on his swing.


5 posted on 01/11/2006 12:05:39 PM PST by Bogeygolfer
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To: easymoney
One of the top two hitters of the last century and backed up by the stats.

You mean back to 1905? There's a hell of a lot of hitters in the past 100 yrs to make such a bold statement (Cobb, Hornsby, Lajoie, Ruth, Williams, Musial, Mays, AAron . . .).

10 posted on 01/11/2006 1:38:54 PM PST by Zuben Elgenubi
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To: easymoney
Although Ripken may be the bigger star...Gwynn has the best credentials by far. You have to go back 50 years to find a hitter with as perfect a swing. One of the top two hitters of the last century and backed up by the stats. The man watched film all day and never stopped working on his swing.

I wouldn't deny his diligence, but neither would I say the stats back Tony Gwynn as one of the top two hitters of the last century. But forget the full century. If you factor the prime purpose of an offencive player---producing runs---Tony Gwynn wasn't even one of the top two hitters of the last half century, or even the last quarter century.

Here is Gwynn's run production per 162 games lifetime, compared to a few of his contemporaries and near-contemporaries, and I'll toss in a couple of figurative ringers:

Tony Gwynn: 167 RP/162
Frank Thomas: 231
Jeff Bagwell: 229
Frank Robinson: 211
Mike Schmidt: 208
Yogi Berra: 199
Dave Winfield: 191
George Brett: 190
Eddie Murray: 190
Johnny Bench: 185
Roberto Alomar: 180
Cal Ripken, Jr.: 180
Ryne Sandberg: 178
Craig Biggio: 174
Tony Perez: 170
Joe Morgan: 170
Mark Grace: 168

Bear in mind that a few of the foregoing gentlemen---Mike Schmidt, George Brett, Cal Ripken Jr., Joe Morgan, Ryne Sandberg, Craig Biggio, Roberto Alomar, Yogi Berra, and Johnny Bench---played more demanding defencive positions and, in a few cases, were the best in the business playing those positions. (Mike Schmidt in two-way terms is the no-questions-asked greatest third baseman of all time and excelled in the field; George Brett is his damn-near-equal; Eddie Mathews was a good fielding third baseman; Yogi Berra and Johnny Bench are the numbers one and two catchers of all time; and Cal Ripken was an excellent defencive shortstop. And who knows what Ryne Sandberg's run production might have proved to be if he'd been batted to his actual hitting skills; if he'd been a number three rather than a number two hitter. Come to think of it, Mark Grace might have been cheated out of putting up Hall of Fame-caliber numbers because he---with the batting skills of a number two hitter---was batted to his field position instead of his skills, but then the Cubs have never exactly been famous for thinking outside the proverbial box . . .)

Gwynn, by the way, grounded into an average of 17 double plays per 162 games, lifetime. On the foregoing list, the men who grounded into the least number of double plays per 162 games were Joe Morgan (6/162), Ryne Sandberg (10/162) and (this might surprise a few people) Yogi Berra (11/162) and (this might surprise a few people, too) Mike Schmidt (11/162). I can't fathom why Gwynn's GIDP/162 is so high, given that he had terrific speed (a .777 stolen base percentage testifies to that), but that's an awful lot of rally killing for such a great hitter.

I don't mean to negate Tony Gwynn's Hall of Fame case at all. The man's earned his way to the Hall of Fame on the first ballot, unless the HOF voters are hit with a serial brain vapor next year. Calling him one of the two best hitters of even the last quarter century, never mind the last half century, is just a little on the wild side, but he didn't have to be one of the two best to be a bona-fide Hall of Famer, either.

15 posted on 01/12/2006 12:33:28 AM PST by BluesDuke (Television is a medium: nothing on it is ever well done.---Fred Allen.)
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