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To: Bernard Marx
I'm re-reading DeVoto's edition of Lewis & Clark's journals and got to wondering how the Nez Perce became master horse-breeders so quickly after the horse's reintroduction to America.

The best estimate is that the horse was reintroduced to North America by Coronado's expeditions in the middle of the 1500's. The Lewis And Clark expedition was made in 1804. That's about 250 years for the Nez Perce to acquire the horse and become master horse breeders. Moreover, the introduction of the horse to the Nez Perce was at least as great a technological advancement as the introduction of the automobile in the last century. Do you also wonder how modern North Americans became master car builders so quickly after the automobile's introduction to America?

For a resource as revolutionary useful as the horse, two and a half centuries is more than enough time for a people to learn how to fully exploit it and then forget there was ever a time when they didn't have it. Especially when you consider that they preserved their history primarily orally, and the Spaniard's other gift to North America, smallpox, was incredibly effective at wiping out the older generations and their memories just as they were coming into contact with the horse for the first time.

Or, put another way, given the choice between spending my time hoping a buffalo herd wanders close enough to a cliff for me to stampede enough over it to make enough pemmican to survive the coming winter or just using a horse to follow the herds and run down individual buffalo as needed, I'd sure be spending my time learning how to ride and breed horses.

31 posted on 11/30/2005 1:25:34 AM PST by pillbox_girl
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To: pillbox_girl
Do you also wonder how modern North Americans became master car builders so quickly after the automobile's introduction to America?

If it's so easy why have they forgotten how to do it so quickly, lol? I guess the "American" automobile is in process of going extinct and is being re-introduced from Asia and Europe, just like the horse was. And the horses didn't even have unions!

With a timeline of 250 years the scenario you discuss is certainly possible and probably likely. I wasn't even doubting it. I was 'wondering,' a pastime I think that is still allowed.

I was wondering how a rather minor tribe located about as far north from Spanish influence as possible within the current outline of the U.S., came into possession of such fine equine bloodlines. (Yes, I know about Indian skill at horse-stealing and that such a 'technological advancement' would be highly prized and rapidly disseminated).

I wonder why a tribe that didn't hunt buffalo regularly, being located in a non-buffalo region and being very fearful of the ferocious Blackfoot who dominated buffalo habitat on the western Great Plains, would be so focused on horse-breeding. I wonder how the concept of selective breeding came to them -- it certainly wasn't a common Indian practice to my knowledge.

Trade to pacify hostile neighbors might account for the focus on breeding. If you can't defeat your enemy in war it's a good idea to be the only source of a commodity he values. And of course selective breeding is simply a matter of careful observation and time. But we have no real idea of when the Nez Perce actually came into possession of their breeding stock or how long it took them to develop a breeding program.

I certainly don't underrate the Nez Perce. Later, with the Palouse War Horse as a resource, Chief Joseph ran humiliating circles around the U.S. Cavalry and almost escaped with his tribe's women and children to Canada. His defeat was one of the great unnecessary tragedies of Manifest Destiny and a lasting testament to his and his people's resourcefulness. But sometimes I still wonder and consider alternate possibilities ...

35 posted on 11/30/2005 8:36:14 AM PST by Bernard Marx (Don't make the mistake of interpreting my Civility as Servility)
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To: pillbox_girl; jimtorr
pillbox_girl: Do you also wonder how modern North Americans became master car builders so quickly after the automobile's introduction to America?
No, I don't, considering that the original autos were just motorized carriages, the population was literate (and had been for a long while), and surrounded by products of the industrial age. But perhaps that was just a joke.
pillbox_girl: For a resource as revolutionary useful as the horse, two and a half centuries is more than enough time for a people to learn how to fully exploit it and then forget there was ever a time when they didn't have it. Especially when you consider that they preserved their history primarily orally, and the Spaniard's other gift to North America, smallpox, was incredibly effective at wiping out the older generations and their memories just as they were coming into contact with the horse for the first time.
250 years is long enough to forget the time before the horse, and just for good measure, the Spanish also introduced smallpox and wiped out the oral link to the past. IOW, there's no evidence that the tribes had the horse (apart from the burial of a horse skull in a 9th century mound) prior to 1540, and there's no evidence that the horse was introduced in 1540.
jimtorr: On the other hand, every tribe on the great plains at that time, I think, had recent memories of acquiring horses and moving onto the plains.
So, the tribes didn't have any memory of a time before the horse, according to PBG, or every tribe did have memories of the recent acquisition, according to Jim.

I'm definitely enjoying this topic, in case anyone wonders. :')
41 posted on 11/30/2005 11:01:29 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Down with Dhimmicrats! I last updated my FR profile on Wednesday, November 2, 2005.)
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