FR Baseball thread..w/e 9/11..Close to crunch time; NL MVP?; Will we see another epic collapse?

one man's opinion.......

[ken5050]

Good Monday morning, Freeper Baseball fans. As exciting as last week was, this week looks even better. We should see our first division clinching this week, and a few more pretenders fall by the wayside...and we'll need a little diversion form the Roberts hearing this week..

[NeoCaveman]

Off the top of my head, I think atleast 4 of those losses were one run games.

[DCPatriot]

Thanks very much for your analogies on the races.

My beloved Orioles are gone again...mired in 4th place after leading the league for virtually the entire 1st half of the season.

Sosa's a bust, Raffie's eating a gun, and the team can't hit a damn with RISP.

[SCALEMAN]

Ken ...Pujols has been spectacular at the plate, and also very consistant in the field. I think he might well get the Golden Glove as well....
Charles...While Pujols has come a long way and has become a good glove man, I think Lee still is the better fielder at first....

There have been very very few instances where a player from a team that did not make post season play was awarded the MVP.
I haven't seen Lee as much as Albert this season, but IMHO Albert is one of the best at 1st if not best.
I heard Mike Shannon talking about Albert's situation the other day. His contention was the Card's success and their overall lineup was detrimental to Albert's chances of winning the MVP.
Personally I would like to see Albert get it, but I don't set a lot of stock in the award after seeing some extremely good players get snubbed over the years. Since there are no set rules it primarily becomes a popularity/opinion poll voted on by a very opionated group. I remember when McGuire broke the HR record the talk was he couldn't be MVP because the Cards didn't make post season. Didn't matter to me at all, but it seems that this 'rule' is pulled out of the hat to disqualify a player when the 'voters' have a player they want to win.

[ken5050]

Sosa will be in Japan next season...

[NeoCaveman]

7 of Cleveland's ten losses to the Chicago White Sox were by only one run.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/al/indians/home.htm

[ken5050]

Pujols "problem" in the field, IMHO, is that, as a big man, he just doesn't look "graceful"..about the only time he gets a "Sportscenter" moment for his fielding is when he knocks a ball down with his body..

[ken5050]

many thanks for the link..Petronski..FYI..see the link in #25

[JohnnyZ]

Since there are no set rules it primarily becomes a popularity/opinion poll voted on by a very opionated group.

Like when Pedro had one of the five greatest pitching seasons ever and lost out on the MVP to Pudge for posting a fearsome .900 OPS.

[Petronski]

AWAY
4-4 CWS 1 CLE 0 (0-1)
4-6 CWS 4 CLE 3 (0-2)
4-7 CLE 11 CWS 4 (1-2)
HOME
4-11 CWS 2 CLE 1 (1-3)
4-13 CWS 5 CLE 4 (1-4)
4-14 CLE 8 CWS 6 (2-4)
AWAY
6-3 CWS 6 CLE 4 (2-5)
6-4 CWS 6 CLE 5 (2-6)
6-5 CLE 6 CWS 4 (3-6)
HOME
7-14 CWS 1 CLE 0 (3-7)
7-15 CWS 7 CLE 1 (3-8)
7-16 CWS 7 CLE 5 (3-9)
7-17 CWS 4 CLE 0 (3-10)

(One-run losses in bold.)

Obviously, the remaining six games with the Chisox are going to be HUGE.

[SCALEMAN]

People take the idea that baseball is a team sport, so an effort is only worthwhile if the team wins, and then demand that one individual win games singlehandedly. Sorry, you can't have it both ways. If a player does everything he can to help his team win all year, more than any other player, he deserves the MVP, no matter how bad his teammates suck

You kinda make my point in post #23. But if a team is good it can be detrimental. The Cards walked away with the Central and have a very good lineup. As a result no matter how much Albert gives (he's been playing hurt for a couple of months now) it could be overshadowed if the Cubs finish strong and Lee is the main cause. What I'm trying to say here is a player on a mediocre team has a better chance of MVP status than one on a spectacular team if the stats are tight.

[Petronski]

I count six, see #29.

[ken5050]

Can anyone dig out some of the other stats, for the three. like BA with RISP? and BA with two outs and RISP..and what about the slugging and OBP?..and steals..and outfield put-outs..anyother that might be germane

[NeoCaveman]

It is 6.

Somehow I was thinking the loss of 6-4 on June 3rd was a one run game. Ungh.

[JohnnyZ]

I agree with you. I don't think a team's record should have little if any impact on MVP. A players job is to give maximum performance to help his team win. They already give awards for winning -- they're called Pennants and World Series rings. The MVP should be about performance.

1999 is a good example of not only Pedro getting shafted, but also Manny and Robby Alomar, who both had career years and should have been 2-3 in the voting -- but they split the Indians vote on a team winning their *yawn* 5th division title in a row in a bad division.

But Pudge won somehow as the slugging catcher on a "division winner" with Aaron Sele as the ace and our old favorite Rafael Palmiero having HIS career year.

[Charles Henrickson]

Realistically, I think NL MVP will come down to Pujols vs. Jones. (Lee should be right there as well, but the Cubs' finishing out of contention will hurt him. I'd put Cabrera fourth.)

Both men, Jones and Pujols, carried their clubs offensively while a big chunk of the lineup was out. For a good share of the season, half of the Card regulars were out with injuries. Of the others who were in, Eck and Grudz are not big boppers, and Edmonds has had a subpar year. So Pujols has not had a whole lot of protection.

Up until late last week, I would have given to MVP to Pujols easily. Except for a slight edge in HRs and RBI, Pujols was way ahead of Jones in every other offensive category. But it seems Jones had a monster series against the Nats, to increase his lead in HRs and RBI and to bring his other numbers up, too. He would certainly not be a bad choice. But let's compare their numbers head-to-head in key categories:

Runs: Pujols, big, 117-89
RBI: Jones, not so big, 121-107
HR: Jones, fair, 49-39
Avg.: Pujols, big, .337-.275
OBP: Pujols, big, .434-.360
SLG: Pujols, slight, .631-.612
OPS: Pujols, fair, 1.065-.972

(Pujols even has the advantage in SB, 15-3.)

Overall, I give the offensive edge to Pujols.

Pujols should not be penalized because he has helped lift his team to an even more comfortable lead and an even better record than Jones has!

There are still 18-19 games left for these guys, so their comparison could change a little bit yet. Pujols's feet are really bothering him right now, so Tony may want to rest him before the playoffs, which could hurt his chances. And Jones has the East Coast media bias working for him.

At this point, though, I still give the MVP to Prince Albert.

A good case, though, could be made that the NL MVP should actually go to . . . Chris Carpenter! I know the CY is seen as the "Pitchers' MVP," but this is one of those rare years where a pitcher is having such a great season--I'm talking Koufax-Gibson-Carlton-class dominance--that Carp could be worthy of both awards! He's having that magnificent of a season, one of the best I've seen in the last 45 years!

[ken5050]

Here's a scenario to ponder...We come down to the last three game series with the White Sox..Let's say that the Tribe is one down, and that BOTH teams have already clinched play-off berth, with both the Yankees and A's already eliminated from the wild card.., with the Red Sox having a better record than the A's and thus they get the WC team in the first round..what do you do? Try and win it?..or rest your staff? any preference whom you'd like to face in the first round?

[Petronski]

I'd prefer to NOT face the Red Sox. Beyond that, in my eyes, it's even-Steven.

[ken5050]

1999 isn't a valid example re Pedro, IMHO, simply because there are an number of voters who will NOT chose a pitcher for the MVP, even if he was 30-0 with a 0.00 ERA...they feel the Cy Young is the award for pitchers..and only an every day positio player deserves the MVP..

[ken5050]

Good point Charles..Question for all..as one who doesn't follow the Cards individual stats very closesly, except for Reollen, I wasn't really aware they had so many major injuries..can you list a few of them..because they ran away and hid..wire to wire..everyone has the sense that it was an easy race..which perception hurts Albert..

[NeoCaveman]

I'd prefer to NOT face the Red Sox. Beyond that, in my eyes, it's even-Steven.

I agree with Petronski.