Hello, I'm starting "slow": Intelligent Design and its implications

[spunkets]

:)

[taxesareforever]

You were the one who brought up the question of Scripture. Recheck your question.

[AntiGuv]

Done. My question is fine. Feel free to answer it whenever.

[taxesareforever]

Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spritual things, but--more frequently than not --struggles against the Divine Word.... Martin Luther

[AntiGuv]

Interesting. That still didn't answer my question though.

[taxesareforever]

Genesis 3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof (Genesis 2:17, tree of knowledge) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

[AntiGuv]

Well, that verse claims that Adam and Eve knew more after the Fall from Grace, not that they (and/or other people) were less intelligent. Are you ready to confess that you just made that BS up, or are you gonna keep looking for the nonexistent verse that says people are less intelligent now than Adam and Eve were before the Fall?

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spritual things, but--more frequently than not --struggles against the Divine Word.... Martin Luther"

It's hard to think of a more anti-intellectual or more anti-Man quote that could be devised. THIS is the epitome of evil.

[taxesareforever]

I just gave it to you. If you can't digest it than there is no sense in even reasoning with you. When the verse says "and ye shall be as gods", that is where people let money, environment,evolution, pornography and whatever else become their gods.Savvy? Naw. I don't really believe you want to admit it since you are enlightened. However the lights are definitely out.

[AntiGuv]

I'll just be blunt: You sound like a total fool. If anything, the quoted verse says the very opposite of the point you originally made. The scripture says nothing even remotely to suggest that man was less intelligent after the Fall than beforehand. Your statement was complete BS. Have a nice evening.

[taxesareforever]

You sound like a total fool.

Psalm 14:1 "The fool says in his heart, there is no God" Sorry, I don't fit the bill. Matter of fact, I'm not sorry.

[taxesareforever]

Sounds like you are a believer in scientific theories. Figures.

[AntiGuv]

Look up Proverbs 26:4 while you're at it.

[taxesareforever]

I think that Proverbs 26:5 is more fitting, from my perspective.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

The phrase,

""Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spritual things, but--more frequently than not --struggles against the Divine Word.... Martin Luther"

says that it is better to be stupid and ignorant but have *faith* then to be smart and educated but question things. It is a great slogan for those who want to keep the uneducated masses in their places and obedient. It is a direct attack on the mind of Man.

""Sounds like you are a believer in scientific theories. Figures."

Sounds like you don't. Figures. A good reason you should stay far away from a science classroom, or anything having to do with one.

[Rurudyne]

"Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof (Genesis 2:17, tree of knowledge) then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil."

Ummm ... do you REALLY want to be quoting the serpent (and, by extension its puppet-master) in a discussion of truth?

I realize it was probably a moment of carelessness. I would suggest that Genesis 3:22 is better if only because the subject of quotation is better.

As for this "good and evil" thing: what the serpent appears to have promised, based on Eve's appraisal of the promise, was wisdom; what God appears to be referring to is morality, of knowing OF good and evil and the necessity to make a choice between the two.

[Rurudyne]

"Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has: it never comes to the aid of spritual things, but--more frequently than not --struggles against the Divine Word.... Martin Luther"

Here we see evidence that even intelligent men can say stupid things because they don't speak as well as they should. If humans use reason "more frequently" to struggle against the Divine Word, then he is as much admitting that at least sometimes men use reason to aid them in their service to God. (Much as Luther did as an expositor of the scriptures.) If men ever use reason in the service of spiritual things then how is it that "it never comes to the aid of spiritual things,"?

In this quote we see clear evidence that Luther was a mere man.

There is an interesting comparison, an philosopher (whose name I can't remember right now) once said (essentially) that man's existence as a moral being demands that he reject God. This is an interesting thought because it evidences a confusion of moral choices (choosing between good and evil) with the whole of human free will. That the ability to sin (or NOT sin) has been construed as the basis for what it means to be a man.

I think I can tie this back to the debate about science, naturalism and intelligent design.... The theory of evolution has no compelling need to make statements about the ultimate origin of life as it looks into the diversification of life; however, naturalism compels the science to serve its needs by proving naturalistic origins to life proper and by disproving a special place for man (with respect to any god). This then invites the equal and opposite "scientific sin" of intelligent design ... asserting that the science should uphold the claims of theist. If you can't put God under a microscope, what basis do you have to test either belief? Both hurt the science by demanding more of it that it can provide.

In essence, the naturalist are confusing the belief that the science can prove their position with the science itself. Liberty from a creator in science has become an important measure of what is scientific.

[RightWhale]

forgive me for any improprieties or inaccuracies of fact

Philosophers have to have the facts, although it is possible for useful results to come from outright fantasy.

[RightWhale]

forgive me for any improprieties or inaccuracies of fact

Philosophers have to have the facts, although it is possible for useful results to come from outright fantasy.

[RightWhale]

The theory of evolution has no compelling need to make statements about the ultimate origin of life

Perhaps 'Origin of the Species' begged the question of the origin of life itself, but it marked a continental divide between the old static, designed, purposeful universe and the modern, open-ended, uncertain universe