Secure USA borders NOW, President Bush. Political Correctness be damned.

[Visioneer]

Please...before it is too late....

[bayourod]

SEALING THE BORDER HAS BEEN PROVEN IMPOSSIBLE

We tried to seal 66 miles of the border in 1994 in “Operation Gate Keeper” designed by the military. It incorporated double and triple fences (some concrete and steel), guard towers, flood lights infrared cameras, ground sensors, patrol roads, horse patrols, ATV patrols, 16 helicopters, fixed wing aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, trucks, and a ratio of 32 guards per mile.

If it was successful the plan was to extend it from San Diego to El Paso. It wasn’t successful at all. See Inspector General’s Report ”experienced agents were estimating it was only 5-10 percent effective”

About two hundred thousand are caught each year trying to cross, and another estimated 30 to 40 thousand make it across undetected. They dig under, climb over and break through the fences.

That’s an average of 454 to 606 per mile per year. Extrapolated just to the 2000 mile Mexican border that would be about 1.2 million border jumpers per year. And we would still have the ones who enter from Canada or by air and water or legally on temporary visas and don’t return.

[MikefromOhio]

calm down killer....

if you think you could pull the trigger on some mexican 3 year old, then be my guest....

but thankfully there won't be many joining you....

there are better, easier, more efficient, less costly (both in money and lives) and basically safer ways to fix the problem.

[Spiff]

The Minutemen lack legitimacy, unfortunately.

Why do you say that?

[Spiff]

You posted your propaganda, I post my response:



The bottom line is that if the criminal invaders do not fear the negative consequences for doing so, they will keep trying to cross. The Minuteman Project proved that the line could be held. The invaders feared what might happen if they crossed in the Minuteman Project monitored area. Because of that, the numbers were significantly reduced. Therefore, if the invaders were faced with harsher penalties than just a first aid check, a sandwich, and a bus ride back to the border (or a plane ride back home) the numbers would go way down. Because we're not enforcing our laws and were coddling criminal invaders, they have no reason not to try and try again.
What kind of penalties? Apprehended border intruders should be held in Joe Arpaio-type tent cities near the border. First offense gets them 6 weeks there, each additional offense gives a longer sentence. The living conditions in the detention centers would be kept at a level just barely above what our brave American soldiers live under in Iraq and Afghanistan. The detainees would be placed on labor crews to:


Clean up the trash left behind by themselves and those like them as they illegally crossed into our country.
Repair and improve border fences and roads.
Erect new border barriers such as walls, triple fences, razor wire, trenches, etc.
This would be a penalty to act as a deterrent to future border crossings. And, in the meantime, our border barriers and roads used by our border enforcers would be improved. Plus, our deserts and other areas would get the garbage, human feces, and other crap left by border intruders cleaned up.
If the rewards of jobs, public benefits, and future citizenship were not there, they would also have little reason to cross. To that end we should also make businesses fear severe reprisals for dishonest and illegal business practices such as employing illegal aliens. Right now there is basically NO internal enforcement on businesses breaking the law. If there was, and businesses faced severe penalties, contract cancellations, etc. they would stop hiring illegals. If competing businesses sued those businesses under RICO statues (this is being done right now, just not at the scale that it should) and start winning huge settlements, businesses would start obeying the law and stop illegally hiring border intruders. Fines, assets and monies seized from businesses who get caught violating the law could be put back into the program to fund sensors, smart fences, cameras, UAVs, etc.

That's it. We have to actually enforce our border and our laws and eliminate the rewards of breaking and entering our country and replace them with penalties. Take away the enticement and offer consequences instead. Those here illegally would see the jobs disappear and public benefits dry up and would voluntarily deport themselves. Life would become so uncomfortable for them, that they would want nothing other than to get the hell out. Those considering violating our borders would have no compelling reason to do so and would actually fear the penalties if they were to actually try it.

That is the solution - one of the only solutions that recognizes the sovereignty of our borders and our laws. These "guest worker" reward-the-lawbreakers-so-more-will-want-to-come scams recognize neither. This solution does not require a massive increase of Border Patrol agents nor permanent stationing of U.S. troops on our borders.

Plus, we need to change how the Border Patrol reports its success or failure. Right now, they report how many the apprehend. Those numbers can be artificially changed for political purposes. I've talked to many Border Patrol Agents who have been ordered to "sit on an X" looking in Y direction. If they apprehend any border intruders nowhere near X or not in view of Y, they have to cut paper (write a memo) about why they were not in their patrol area. These "sitting on an X" orders are always connected to some political shenanigans being played by BP management. If they want to look successful, they just start goofing with their enforcement policies to bring apprehension numbers down. In the meantime, actual border intrusions are going up - they're just not counting it. They should have to report not just how many apprehensions they obtained, but how many made it past them and why. This data should be open to Congress and the public for scrutiny to make sure that they're not cooking the books.

The difference between you and me is that I favor a policy of enforcement that puts Americans first. You, instead, favor a policy of excusing the lawbreakers, offering them rewards and putting foreigners first.

Your solution forces Americans to bear the responsibility for supporting those who invade our country. My solution makes the invaders individually responsible for breaking and entering our nation and forces them and their accomplices to face the consequences for their actions.

Your solution encourages businesses to continue to engage in unfair and illegal business practices. My solution punishes criminal employers and benefits those who are obeying the law.

Your solution sympathizes with the lawbreaker. My solution penalizes the lawbreaker.

Your solution is soft on crime. My solution is tough on crime.

Your solution is to offer rewards and understanding to the invaders. I believe it is time to unleash the might and power of the United States law enforcement and military to repel the invaders and punish those who aid and abet them.

Your solution is a surrender. My solution has America protecting the rights and property of its citizens and preserving our sovereignty.

To stave off your next argument, I fully understand the tragedy of the over 40 million unborn children who have been murdered since Roe v Wade was decided. In fact, the abortion issue was the issue that turned me into a conservative and a Republican. I understand the repercussions on our nation for this slaughter. However, two wrongs do not make a right. We can't reverse the evil effects of abortion by committing another evil - destroying our sovereignty and rewarding lawbreakers. You can't make evil go away or eliminate its consequences by engaging in more evil. And that's what you propose when you say that unfettered immigration and wide open borders is the answer to the holocaust of abortion. It's not.

Now, I'm sure that because of what I've just said you're going to label me a racist Buchananite, as you're wont to do. You've developed this bizarre and paranoid worldview that everyone who supports enforcing our laws, protecting our borders, and preserving our sovereignty is somehow a Tancredoite/Buchananite paleoconservative something-or-other bent on destroying the Republican Party from within. The screed on your FR homepage is a testament to this. So, flame away. Label me - pigeon hole me - try to marginalize me. It won't work. Pull out the racist, bigot, xenophobe, anti-hispanic card. Won't work - I'm immune. Instead, why don't you listen to the people who are negatively effected by this ongoing invasion and violation of our sovereignty? Why don't you listen to someone who lives right on the border and sees the problems every day?

You can continue your campaign to insult, belittle, and marginalize those concerned about the waves of intruders pouring across our borders importing crime, disease, poverty, and third-world attitudes or you can offer them the same amount of understanding that you so readily give away to the criminals violating our borders to suck our country dry.

[Dane]

It ain't 1987 anymore

Nor is it 1961.

[Iron Matron]

if you think you could pull the trigger on some mexican 3 year old, then be my guest.... <<<

Not a good argument fella! It is NOT 3 year olds that are coming over here and MURDERING CITIZENS GOT IT!!!!

It is truckloads of MEN, MEN who have a low-grade, third world mentality..that are KILLING OUR 3 YEAR OLDS!!!

Once a few of them get BLASTED instead of WELCOMED, maybe they'll keep their 3 year olds in MEXICO where they effing belong!!!

BTW...THREE YEAR OLDS DO GROW UP, YOU KNOW...

[MikefromOhio]

GOT IT!!!

GOT!!!!

Got what? a Caps Lock key?

get off of your computer. Your hysteria is NOT needed today. lay off of the crack pipe too bud....

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

"Secure the borders."

Great idea.

You willing to pay for the people to do it? We have over 19,000 miles of borders to secure. I don't care how much technology you employ, that still adds up to a lot of people to secure those borders 24/7.

[meema]

...there are better ways...

How about some suggestions?

[meema]

Keep posting those pic, Travis.
It concentrates the mind wonderfully.

[blaquebyrd]

"You willing to pay for the people to do it?

" How does the cost compare to paying for another 911/Iraq War/Afghanistan War? Not to mention taking the financial burden off of our border states for the care and upkeep of millions of illegals.

[Nowhere Man]

We cannot surrender, if we do, we might as well just apply Sharia Law or Red Chinese Communist Law and just deep six the United States. At one time, we had vision in this country, vision that even conquered time, space and distance by putting a man on the Moon. If we had your attitude in 1961, either the Soviets would have beat us to the Moon or we would still be talking about going to this day. We need to get back to the spirit of President John F. Kennedy to where we did things "not because they are easy but because they are hard." Sure closing the borders will be hard work, but it MUST be done for the love of God. We have no choice. At least to the point to where we have only a few access locations ala Checkpoint Charlie. During the Vietnam War, during Operation Linebacker we managed to keep track of the Viet Cong and NVA using arial recon plane and, even using 1960's technology, electronic sensors on the ground, we can do the same as we did almost 40 years and more. If course, Vietnam was a loss, but your mentality did enter into the equation to where we could not win. I know plenty of people who would be willing to haul M1 Garands around and take jobs on the border, heck, I would consider it. I'd be willing to monitor the sensors, computers, and so on. Would be a good way to address the underemployment problem and get people off of welfare.

Between the liberals and liberarians, there attitudes are going to kill us all.

[Nowhere Man]

You willing to pay for the people to do it? We have over 19,000 miles of borders to secure. I don't care how much technology you employ, that still adds up to a lot of people to secure those borders 24/7.

Yes I would, even if it means slaughtering the sacred cow of not raising taxes and raise them if need be.

[Spiff]

Your incendiary and inappropriate comments are not welcomed by the border security and immigration reform advocates here or elsewhere. Please stop. You're not helping the cause, you're hurting it. Yes, I'm angry - I'm outraged - but engaging in the type of behavior you are and advocating what you're advocate is self-defeating. Knock it off.

[antisocial]

"Dane couldn't be more right in his first statement"

Maybe you haven't met these folks:

AZTLAN LEADER QUOTES

"While I am saying this half serious and half joking, I think we are practicing la reconquista in California."
~ Jose Pescador Osuna, Mexican Consul General, Feb 2002.

"I have proudly affirmed that the Mexican nation extends beyond the territory enclosed by its borders and that Mexican migrants are an important - a very important - part of this."
~ Ernesto Zedillo, Former President of Mexico, speaking in Chicago, July 23, 1997.

"Mexico extends beyond its borders."
~ Vicente Fox, Current President of Mexico, speaking to a gathering in Milwaukee in July of 2001

"California is going to be a Hispanic State and anyone who doesn't like it should leave. They should go back to Europe."
~ Mario Obledo, President of the Californian Coalition of Hispanic Organisations, June 1998

"Our devil has pale skin and blue eyes..." "To the gringos in the audience, I have one final message to convey, 'Up yours, baby. You've had it, from now on.' "
~ Jose Angel Gutierrez, professor, University of Texas.

"We have an aging white America. They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in our population... I love it. They are sh!tting in their pants with fear. I love it.... We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him."
~ Jose Angel Gutierrez, professor, University of Texas.

"Remember 187 (proposition to deny taxpayer funds for services to non citizens) was the last gasp of white America in California."
~ Art Torres, Chairman of the California Democratic Party in front of 400 cheering Latinos at U.C. Riverside on January 14, 1995.

"We need to avoid a white backlash by using codes understood by Latinos... non-Latinos aren't watching, they aren't raising questions"
~ Fernando Guerra, professor, Loyola Marymount

"Go back to Boston! Go back to Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You are old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you. Leave like beaten rats. You old white people. It is your duty to die. .. Through love of having children, we are going to take over."
~ Augustin Cebeda, of the 'Brown Berets', a militant Aztlan group at a violent rally in Los Angeles on July 4, 2000.

"Fair housing agencies report a surge in discrimination by immigrant landlords from many nations who refuse to rent outside their ethnic group."
~ Reported in Los Angeles Times, Nov. 21 2001.

"In an extraordinary political move, President Vicente Fox has announced the formation of a cabinet level agency to govern, protect and provide services to over 20 million Mexicans now living in Aztlan, a territory encompassing most of the southwest part of the USA. President Fox declared yesterday that he will personally lead the new agency he named "Consejo Nacional para las Comunidades Mexicanas en el Exterior" (National Council for Mexican Communities Abroad). The "Council" will consist of the president, most of the cabinet secretaries and a, as of yet unnamed, representative from Aztlan. This is a bold move that essentially extends the arm of the Mexican government into the territories it previously lost during the Mexican-American War of 1848."
~ Reported in "La Voz de Aztlan", August 7, 2002.

"We have Nicaragua, soon we will have El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, Costa Rica, and Mexico. One day, tomorrow or five years or fifteen years from now, we're going to take 5 to 10 million Mexicans and they are going into Dallas, into El Paso, into Houston, into New Mexico, into San Diego, and each one will have embedded in his mind the idea of killing ten Americans."
~Thomas Borge, Nicaragua Interior Minister as quoted in the Washington Times, March 27, 1985

[Dead Corpse]

Your hysteria is NOT needed today.

Nor is your appeasement attitude doing us a lot of good either. Thanks for nothing...

[BeHoldAPaleHorse]

"How does the cost compare to paying for another 911/Iraq War/Afghanistan War?"

Fighting the wars is probably cheaper. Among other things, wars actually end someday.

"Not to mention taking the financial burden off of our border states for the care and upkeep of millions of illegals."

They volunteered to give away OPM, they can always unvolunteer.

[fishtank]

Secure our borders Mr. President!!!

[HiJinx]

In the context of the reply, I was looking to identify a body that had legal authority and popular support or backing, a group that could not be denigrated by mouthpieces.

You and I both know that the Minutemen have the most basic of legal backing to do what they've done, but the MSM has demonized the MMP to the point where the average Joe doesn't believe they should be there.

I guess my desire is rather pollyanish. The press and the OBL will not allow anything to happen to stem the tide of illegals, and that includes securing our borders.

[fishtank]

Go ahead, Mr. Vicente Fox, make my day!

Don't cross our borders!