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Expert, (or non-expert), Computer Advise, please
Computer Dummies Network | 5/22/2005 | Sir Thomas the More

Posted on 05/22/2005 9:40:24 AM PDT by sirthomasthemore

Feeble minded, at least when it comes to computers. (I know- those who have read my posts consider me feeble-minded, generally)

I use a PC for basic word processing and Internet. My only other interests would movies and music.

I’m looking at Emachines T2984; Celeron Processor 2.93 Ghz, 512 Ram to 2GB; 8o GB HD, Intel Extreme Grphics; 16XDVD; CD-RW 48X; 8-1 Media Mgr;5 USB 2.0; 1 serial; 1 parallel; 2 PS/2 ports;1 VGA External; 10/100Mbps Ethernet; Windows XP-

It’s about $500.00. Is it a good buy? Will it suit my needs? Any other recommendations?

Any help appreciated. “Put downs” and criticisms graciously accepted. :0)


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To: sirthomasthemore
Ah yes - now I remember. I believe that eMachines was purchased by Gateway last year. This is not entirely good news. Gateway's ResellerRatings.com lifetime ratings are 2.25, and their rating for the last six months is just 1.43. This is not good. See further Gateway Store Ratings for details.
61 posted on 05/24/2005 8:22:35 AM PDT by ThePythonicCow (To err is human; to moo is bovine.)
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To: Malsua
I'd agree with that. The one issue with Dell is that their support for home users has been substantially worse than their support for business or corporate users. Most people I know who manage Dells in business environments swear by them -- solid support. From what I've heard of home users of Dell, they mostly swear at Dell -- dreadful support. The lifetime ResellerRatings.com rating for Dell is 4.47, with a last six months rating of 3.57, and a Customer Service rating of just 1.61, which I suspect mostly reflects home users, not corporate.
62 posted on 05/24/2005 8:29:38 AM PDT by ThePythonicCow (To err is human; to moo is bovine.)
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To: Petronski
I guess you're the guy who bought it. ;O)


Hi Pet-
The lord protects those of us who are dummies. :)

Additionally, Pet, I like your suggestion as to creating the computer. I'm not afraid to open the cover- I have upgraded the Packard with memory, modem, etc- over the years.

Now, I have never created a PC from scratch, but I wouldn't be adverse to trying- as long as there are instructions. But the system you cited, seems to be bare bones.

I don't want to impose, but if you were buying that system, could you give me an idea of what components you would buy to make it a viable upgradable system satisfactory to you, which would solve my present needs, and leave room to upgrade in the future to take advantage of movies and music. I don't do gaming,so that's not important.

If this is too complicated, please disregard. Needless, to say, I have appreciated your input and don't want to impose further on your graciousness.
63 posted on 05/24/2005 8:43:19 AM PDT by sirthomasthemore (I go to my execution as the King's humble servant, but God's first!)
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To: sirthomasthemore
If you are of a mind to try assembling your own PC, see my Post #60.
64 posted on 05/24/2005 8:52:51 AM PDT by ThePythonicCow (To err is human; to moo is bovine.)
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To: sirthomasthemore
It's fine, except for the CPU, motherboard and graphics. Low-end systems are infamous for half-assed on-board graphics...but what's worse, sometimes the user has no way to change that. [See review below.] Better systems will have a BIOS setting for selection of graphics: on-board, PCI or AGP. If there's no such BIOS setting, you don't want it.

I would never buy a celeron. I'd rather spend the same to buy a slower pentium/athlon. A celeron is fine for light duties. But I wouldn't want to do anything graphical with them. There's no chance you'll regret a pentium/athlon. With celeron, the chances are pretty good.




I found a review:

Guide Review - eMachines T2984

10/5/04 - EMachines is a well known company in the budget market segment that was recently purchased by Gateway. Previously eMachines almost exclusively used AMD processors for their systems, but that has changed with more recently offerings including the T2984 budget desktop.

Powering the T2984 desktop is the Intel Celeron D 340. This is a bit more powerful version than most competing budget systems that helps boost the performance slightly. Matched with this is 512MB of PC2700 DDR allowing it to run most applications smoothly.

Storage for the T2984 is average. Hard drive space is handled by an 80GB drive that should be more than enough for the average user. Optical storage is provided by a 48x CD-RW burner and a 16x DVD-ROM drive. Also included is an 8-in-1 media card reader for digital cameras or MP3 players.

Graphics for the T2984 are average for a budget desktop, but that also means they are extremely limited. The integrated Extreme 2 graphics processor uses up to 64MB of main system memory and provides very dated 3D performance. Don't expect this system to be used for video games. Also, the system lacks an AGP or PCI-E expansion slot for graphics upgrades.

While the T2984 does have a bit of a speed advantage over its competitors, it has a hard time competing against itself. Their AMD based system priced only a bit higher offers a lot more for the money. "

65 posted on 05/24/2005 8:54:47 AM PDT by Petronski (A champion of dance, my moves will put you in a trance, and I never leave the disco alone.)
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To: sirthomasthemore

I want to recommend a couple very good vendors who have been very good to me: tigerdirect.com and zipzoomfly.com.


66 posted on 05/24/2005 8:56:38 AM PDT by Petronski (A champion of dance, my moves will put you in a trance, and I never leave the disco alone.)
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To: sirthomasthemore

There's a lot of wisdom in this thread, but I want to take special care to associate myself with one particular piece of advice regarding memory.

You want nothing less than 512mb of memory, and if you can, try to specify that all memory be in one stick (leaving an open slot for later memory expansion).

If you get a computer with two 256mb sticks of memory, later when you add memory, you'll actually have to delete some of your existing memory. EXAMPLE: If you buy a stick of 512mb, you can either put it in an empty slot, for the full gig (good), or you will be forced to pull a 256mb stick to add the 512mb, for only 768mb at same cash outlay (bad).

Better systems might have three or four memory slots, but most have two.


67 posted on 05/24/2005 9:02:13 AM PDT by Petronski (A champion of dance, my moves will put you in a trance, and I never leave the disco alone.)
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To: ThePythonicCow

Hi Cow,

Sorry, my post 63 should have been directed to you. If you have an opinion on what you would create, I'd love to hear it.

Again, if it's an imposition, please disregard. You've been vert helpful.


68 posted on 05/24/2005 9:18:30 AM PDT by sirthomasthemore (I go to my execution as the King's humble servant, but God's first!)
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To: ThePythonicCow; Petronski

Would this system at $592.00 be acceptable

17-inch CRT flat screen monitor AMD Sempron 3000+ processor (operates at 2.0GHz) 512KB L2 Cache and 333MHz FSB 512MB DDR (1 x 512MB) SDRAM (PC2700) Expandable to 2GB 120 GB hard drive nVidia GeForce4 MX Graphics 64MB DDR Shared Memory 10/100Mbps Ethernet LAN (integrated) network Pair of desktop speakers eMachines BigFix feature identifies and resolves problems that affect the system before they occurProtect your new computer from the unknown with preinstalled Norton Internet Security 20052 (Anti-Virus, Anti-Spam, Firewall and Parental Control), McAfee Anti-Spyware3, and eMachines Easily create photo slide shows and burn CDs or DVDs with the preinstalled Nero 6 software Windows XP Home edition operating system pre-installed With the Double Layer 16x DVD +/- RW, store up to 8.5 GB of your favorite video, music, photos or data 8-in-1 Digital Media Manager for: Secure Digital (SD), Smart Media, Micro Drive, MemoryStick, Memory Stick Pro, Compact Flash, Multimedia Card USB 2.0 10/100 Mbps Ethernet LAN (integrated) Network; 56K ITU V.90 ready Fax/Modem
ModemWrite max: 16x DVD +/-R, 6x DVD-RW, 8x DVD+RW, 4x DVD+R Double Layer, 8x DVD+RW, 40x CD-R, 24x CD-RW Reads max: 16x DVD-ROM disks40x CD-ROM disks nForce 6-Channel Audio Audio nVidia GeForce4 MX graphics; 64 MB DDR Shared Memory 512 MB DDR SDRAM (PC2700); expandable to 2 GBOperating System: Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition SP2 Preloaded with: Microsoft Works 8 software; Microsoft Money 2005; Microsoft Encarta Online; AdobeAcrobat Reader;Microsoft Media Player 10; RealNetworks RealPlayer; CyberLink PowerDVD; Nero 6 Suite


69 posted on 05/24/2005 9:33:27 AM PDT by sirthomasthemore (I go to my execution as the King's humble servant, but God's first!)
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To: sirthomasthemore

Do you have a model number?


70 posted on 05/24/2005 9:35:40 AM PDT by Petronski (A champion of dance, my moves will put you in a trance, and I never leave the disco alone.)
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To: Petronski

Yep. W3052-


71 posted on 05/24/2005 10:22:43 AM PDT by sirthomasthemore (I go to my execution as the King's humble servant, but God's first!)
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To: sirthomasthemore

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1361631&CatId=0

250W power supply? Yikes, I'm afraid.

AGP slot means you can upgrade the video. It's the Sempron socket 764, which is the more powerful.

But that powersupply is anemic (should be 350-400 IMO).

Yeah, it'll run fine, it's better than the other one. But that power supply is probably going to wear out early from overheating, IMO.


72 posted on 05/24/2005 10:41:04 AM PDT by Petronski (A champion of dance, my moves will put you in a trance, and I never leave the disco alone.)
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To: Petronski

Thanks, Pet. Will pass on that one.


73 posted on 05/24/2005 10:44:02 AM PDT by sirthomasthemore (I go to my execution as the King's humble servant, but God's first!)
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To: sirthomasthemore
I suspect you mean this system: eMachines Desktop, 2.0 GHz AMD Sempron w/ 17" CRT, from Wal*Mart. Well - Wal*Mart probably won't be able to provide much after sales support, but at least you can expect them to deliver what they say they will deliver, and to handle returns competently. But they won't be able to answer any techie questions.

Every component in the system will be close to the lowest cost alternative, which will probably bite you sooner or later, most likely meaning that you will be looking for a replacement sooner, say in 2 to 4 years, instead of perhaps 4 to 8 years. It will also mean that when replacement time comes, you will be just discarding the old box, not upgrading piece wise.

You get a decent price. My preference would be to go with an outfit that can provide more specific computer expertise, and to get a system that I can work on with pleasure. Working on cheap boxes like these is frustrating, like working on a Pinto or Yugo. Working on nice hardware is more fun, like working on a Harley.

But these are reasonable tradeoffs that one could make either way.

My biggest concern would be the eMachines name -- they have gone through hard times, and have been bought, if I recall correctly, by Gateway, who have a rather poor reputation of late. This probably means that the risk of getting a lemon - a system with an early serious problem that causes you major grief - is higher than it should be.

If you get the lemon, you will look back and say "I should have listened." If you don't get the lemon, you will look recommend eMachines to others. It's the luck of the draw.

Once you get at least 512 Mb of memory, the other hardware details matter little. Like cheap commuter cars, they all go fast enough, they all hold at least a couple of people, and they all get similar mileage and have similar maintenance and insurance expenses. Until they break down, it doesn't matter a whole lot.

74 posted on 05/24/2005 1:13:56 PM PDT by ThePythonicCow (To err is human; to moo is bovine.)
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To: Petronski
For the fairly low power CPU and disk and video that is in that box, 250 watts will work.

What matters on power supplies is more the quality of the components than the Watt rating, so long as you have enough power. That box really won't be pulling more than I'd guess 100 to 150 watts, as equipped. Unless he custom builds, there is no way he's going to get a quality power supply anyway.

So long as he doesn't add a fast disk or a fancy video card, his problem will be that the power supply doesn't last many years, not that it is underpowered. A cheap 400 watt supply would likely die almost as quickly.

One would not choose between a Yugo and a Pinto based on top speed, unless one is racing them - a foolish endeavor. So long as they can go 70 MPH, that's fast enough. They will both turn into piles of rubbish sooner than the neighbors Corolla.

75 posted on 05/24/2005 1:24:10 PM PDT by ThePythonicCow (To err is human; to moo is bovine.)
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To: ThePythonicCow
Thanks Pythonic Cow-

The only reason I even knew about emachines was because
CNET rated it above the Mac Mini. http://reviews.cnet.com/eMachines_T6212/4505-3118_7-31341178-2.html?
although it indicated that last year's emachine t5026 was a better buy.

I like Walmart better than CompUSA, Circuit City or mail order, because I can walk into Walmart and give them "what for" if I have a problem- and they're much more liberal in trying to make customer happy- in my experience.

If you have time, Walmart doesn't have a huge selection- is there anything that you would feel comfortable with?
tag=tophttp://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp?cat=41937- or is it that you feel no matter what, one's getting basement level?


Thanks very much for your help.
76 posted on 05/24/2005 2:51:03 PM PDT by sirthomasthemore (I go to my execution as the King's humble servant, but God's first!)
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To: sirthomasthemore
Yes - I'd pick Wal*Mart over those others as well, for similar reasons to yours. They may not know Jack about computers, but at least they have the basics of distribution, stocking and returns down solid.

That C|Net review is evaluating the system based on features, price and performance. From that perspective, this is a fine system for the price.

The maintainability and longevity of the system, and the smile, or frown, on the face of someone trying to work on its internals, is not something C|Net could evaluate, or that they made any particular effort to evaluate. So, on those matters, their score simply means nothing, one way or the other.

If you went to the overclocking web sites, they wouldn't let this machine's carcass pollute their dumpster ;). Those guys expect to work on a machine, with pleasure at the design and robustness of the internals.

Pretty much that, yes. So long as you have an "exit strategy", on the 10% to 20% chance you got a lemon, then this can work fine. It sounds like your "exit strategy" is the Wal*Mart Returns desk - that should work. For people who cannot tolerate something going wrong with their computer, a less risky, more costly, approach is recommended.

For normal (no serious gaming) PC use, this can provide about the lowest cost, entirely useful, solution available short of building your own. Even building your own won't save much over this, unless you're like me, and have a room full of spare parts.

77 posted on 05/24/2005 3:47:57 PM PDT by ThePythonicCow (To err is human; to moo is bovine.)
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To: ThePythonicCow
Pythonic,

You have been very patient, and overly gracious with both your time and expertise ( I wish I had your working knowledge of the same).

With Frist-like confidence, I am leaning towards pulling the trigger on the emachine wt monitor.

Within 18 months, actually, it will be my 2nd computer. I plan on buying another computer (whatever is state of the art at that time), so I can download movies and music and create a library without incident.

Probably, PM you at that time, and pick your brain about "networking". Sincerely, again, thanks so much.
78 posted on 05/24/2005 4:19:52 PM PDT by sirthomasthemore (I go to my execution as the King's humble servant, but God's first!)
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To: sirthomasthemore
You're quite welcome. I've been answering these kind of questions here for a year or two now -- you are only the second person who has stayed around to discuss the topic, after making the original post. Usually, I have no idea if my replies are even read by the original poster. Thanks for asking, and following up. Good luck.
79 posted on 05/24/2005 7:43:10 PM PDT by ThePythonicCow (To err is human; to moo is bovine.)
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