<Vanity> Looking for a good beginner Linux Desktop, any help?

[this_ol_patriot]

Hey mods if this isn't in the right place please move or delete. I don't write vanities much but since I'm asking for the broad knowledge of fellow FReepers maybe I'll be forgiven.

I'm looking for a good starter Linux desktop OS for my wife's computer, I have an old Win2k box (P31G-512) that I can use but needs the OS re-installed after years of abuse by the kids. I can put put a clean Win2k back on but figured this is a good time to learn a bit about Linux, so I've been checking out some distros. I'm looking for a package for light internet and office uses, just everyday surfing and doing a report now and then, nothing fancy, the ability to emulate Windows for some old solitaire and board games would be a plus

I saw that Xandros, Mepis, Linspire or Lycoris are recommended as good starters at Distrowatch. So what do you think?

I noticed there are fees associated with getting those distros and I can see why, a lot of work appears to have gone in setting up those packages. I am aware of the "free-free" distros like Debian and Fedora but I don't think I'm ready for those. I do have a bunch of DOS and Windows experience, have XP Pro and XP Home gaming machines and a 98 junk machine running now and have been using MS stuff since DOS 3.1.

So what do you say folks, what I read here will probably determine what I do.

Thanks,

t_o_p

[georgedidit]

You can find Mepis on several mirrors for free ( yes, it's legal ). I think there is a Community free edition for Xandros. If you want a good look at linux first, download Knoppix which is a live-cd. You can run the CD without installing. Good luck!

[JoJo Gunn]

ping

[ThePythonicCow]

I'd recommend SuSE 9.3 - just out. They have the best manuals, which can really help for someone coming to Linux from Windows. The "big" distros, such as SuSE, Mandrake and Red Hat, spend more effort on the details that can ensure success. Of late, SuSE has been leading these three for such uses.

I'd go with the KDE desktop technology, over GNOME, since KDE is a little more windows like, and since KDE has been a long standing strength of SuSE (though their corporate owner Novell also owns Gnome now as well ;).

One weakness of SuSE 9.3 is the limited MP3 multimedia support. See First Look at SUSE LINUX 9.3 Professional - Multimedia support... or lack of it for details. From that review, it seems that one can update to more complete MP3 support using the YaST Online Update (YOU) facility over the internet, after you install the CD package.

The previous version, SuSE 9.2 Professional is available at LinuxCentral.com, for $72.95. The lower priced ($10 or $20) packages won't include the good manual set, which is worth getting your first time.

The just released version 9.3 is only available from a few spots, such as DigitalRiver.com, for $99.95. If you want to wait a few weeks, I'd wager that other places such as LinuxCentral.com will have SuSE 9.3, for perhaps $10 less.

[martin_fierro]

Explore Linux as an alternative OS, without installing it on your hard drive, via a free bootable CD-ROM! Download Knoppix (or one of these other Linux distributions), burn the ISO file onto a CD-ROM, and reboot with the CD-ROM in its drive. If you later want to install Knoppix on your hard drive, here are some tips.

[absalom01]

I'd suggest Suse, too.

Install both Gnome and KDE, so you can see which you like best.

It's almost ready for prime time!

[this_ol_patriot]

I want to thank everyone who has contributed here both now and in the future, be assured that I will look at every single suggestion given here and also do research on my own, so any thoughts given here will not be wasted.

This looks interesting Ark Linux

Ark Linux is a GNU/Linux distribution designed especially for desktop use, primarily for people without prior Linux experience.

Ark Linux is designed to:

...be easy to learn and use
...include many tools and applications

Ark Linux is fully Open Source and Free Software, meaning, basically, you can freely redistribute it in both modified and unmodified form.

Any thoughts?

[Echo Talon]

I had Mandrake like 3 different versions,Slackware,Redhat 2 different versions, Knoppix newer version,peanut linux... HATED IT! Back to WindowsXP :P.

[Ponce17]

To reiterate several replies, I too recommend Suse linux. I previously used Redhad, and found Suse has a much easier set up process. For instance, setting up it as a samba server was an easier process (for those who don't know, it allows file sharing between a Linux PC and a Windows PC).

[neb52]

It's pretty easy on FC3 as well. Just plug in the Workgroup name just like windows. I haven't had anymore time to play around, but FC3 does have more of a Windows feel to it. I have been meaning to install SuSe and Mandrake to give them a try, but haven't gotten around to it.

[alnitak]

I just installed Ubuntu. I am very impressed, it's the first time Linux has ever worked with all my hardare.

[ShadowAce]

Thanks for the Ping, JoJo.

I currently run Fedora Core, and it works really well. As other posters have mentioned, I've heard good things about SuSe as well.

Both distros are full-fledged packages that will offer the user anything they could want--including multiple browsers, office suites, music players, video, etc.

Several people I know use MEPIS and Xandros. I have not personally used them, but they seem to like them a lot.

One STRONG word of advice--once you pick one, stick with it and learn that particular distro. Don't run around and try them all out at once, as it may make things a little harder to learn. Menus are organized a little differently, etc.

Several posters have also mentioned Knoppix. This Live CD is based on Debian, which is a rock-solid distro. While there are quite a few Live CD versions available, Knoppix is the grand-daddy of them. It may also help you learn a few things about Linux as well.

Once you pick one and install it, please come back and ping us to let us know how things went. Also, I'd be happy to assist in any way I can.

[ThePythonicCow]

I had not heard of Ark Linux before (but there are hundreds of distributions I have not heard of.

Looking around, I would be reluctant to recommend it. Like many distributions, it is running on a very small team, so really cannot test or document much of what it has. The SuSE manuals are damn good - a small distro really can't touch them. And SuSE (with Novell's larger financial support as owner) can test across a wider range of systems and choices, leaving you less likely to be the first one to try something. And with a "big" distro, there is a better chance of continuing to receive updates and fixes for the next several years on a timely basis.

The opening blurb and web page graphics for Ark sound nice, but that is a rather thin veneer. See further details at:

• www.desktoplinux.com:

  Mar. 20, 2005
  
  After three years of development, the Ark Linux team has released its first officially "stable" distribution. Ark Linux 2005.1 is based on Linux kernel 2.6.11 and boasts the "latest desktop technologies," including KDE 3.4, OpenOffice.org 1.1.4 (a preview of 2.0 is also available), glibc 2.3.4, and X.Org 6.8.2.

  Beware -- if it took three years to get out the first release, there is considerable risk they will not be able to provide fixes and updates regularly in the future.
• On distrowatch.com:

  This is a bug fix release of Ark Linux 2005.1: "Ark Linux 2005.1-SR1, a bugfix release of Ark Linux 2005.1, has been released. Mostly due to our lack of test hardware and testers, a couple of bugs worth fixing immediately managed to get into Ark Linux 2005.1 - based on user feedback, we have made a Service Release to address them and add some commonly requested features. ...

  This is a quote from the lead guy, recognizing that they lack testing resources.
• On guilinux.com:

  Posted Monday, March 21 @ 14:29:20 MST
  

  Welcome to this year's 12th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! Two "newbie-friendly" distribution releases appeared on the scene last week - one of them a very nicely designed product with superb usability and great, innovative features (Linspire 5.0), while the other is a promising new product, which is let down by a poor installer, obvious bugs and lack of polish (Ark Linux 2005.1).

  Note the "obvious bugs and lack of polish" comment.
• On www.osnews.com: there is a thorough review of Ark. A couple of quotes from the review:
  • Nonetheless, getting on the internet and getting the video configured was trivial to me, but I sense that my mother would already be lost by this point.
  • This version is an Alpha version, they make no bones about that. As an alpha version, you should expect certain things not to work. That said, this is a very nice piece of software for a work in progress, and could probably be used by most people as their main desktop environment. The issues I have are less complaints than just marks of an unfinished product.
• Another review at www.extremetech.com. They were pleasantly surprised, though it has some problems.

[Decombobulator]

For ease of use you can't beat Mandrake. It is the only distro which successfully detected all my hardware without me having to do any configuring.

http://www1.mandrivalinux.com/en/

[this_ol_patriot]

Wow man you really went all out,thanks, I'm still loooking at all these options. I'm not adverse to working out and around some bugs or problems, my wife tells me I spend more time perfecting my installs than I do using the computer. I do enjoy tweaking systems, I'm the "guy at work" whom everyone comes to when spyware and viruses take over their machines. Ha, I have the smallest hijackthis log on the planet.

That being said I don't mind problems that are "workable", if I can find the information somewhere and tweak or configure them out of existence at a high level fine but code problems or low level stuff that causes freezes and such and I'll just can it. Truthfully I really don't want a "install and forget" distro, I would like to have to work through some issues and at least learn a bit about the system in the process. I would like to position myself to have some Linux knowledge in case my work would decide to go that route.

I'm looking at them and what I see is somewhat different than what I expected. I expected an OS only with maybe a browser and Open Office or KOffice installed instead I see Skype, Bit Torrent clients, Real Audio, Moneyplex and some other stuff I would never allow on my machines. I don't want or need this stuff. I know I could uninstall the stuff but I like to start clean. I suppose that's my Windows paranoia showing (I run a hardware firewall, not just a NAT router and a software firewall at home) but until I know a system and what it can do I don't want things could cause incidents.

Maybe I should ask "What are the cleanest Linux distros out there?" That I'll find out, I'm digging and learning.

[Cboldt]

Try Knoppix from CD. Play with it to see if it suits you at all.

Check reviews for other distributions before you commit time to putting one on a hard drive. This thread has some very good suggestions.

If you are a serious computer hobbiest, try Gentoo. It is a PAIN to install, but the docs are good, and you'll learn more about the underlying software.

[Cboldt]

I expected an OS only with maybe a browser and Open Office or KOffice installed instead I see Skype, Bit Torrent clients, Real Audio, Moneyplex and some other stuff I would never allow on my machines.

Those "dangerous" applications are just on the drive, and not active unless you run them. DOn't worry about having the software as part of the distro.

You will want to probe your system to see what ports it presents to the world. Not all distros are equal when it comes to security. The most secure, hands down, is BSD.

[Cboldt]

Security minded -> http://www.freebsd.org/

Technically, NOT Linux.

[ThePythonicCow]

The installers for most any decent distro will let you pick and choose, starting with just the basic essentials and adding as you go. And they will keep track of what is on the CD/DVD, so you can decide to add more later, and it will remind you to insert the CD so it can get it.

The primary way to keep a system tight on Linux is to make sure you are using a distro that provides security updates quickly. Once a security bug is found, it is more likely that someone will find a way to exploit it. The second thing to do is to not run network services that you don't need. Having stuff installed is in and of itself nearly zero risk. There are few binaries left on any recent Linux/GNU distro that are setuid or setgid (permissions marking a file to run with higher authority than the invoking task), and what few such binaries there are occur in basic packages (such as the login/password software) that you pretty much have to have.

All the stuff I do to keep my Windows tight, including hardware firewall, antivirus, hostsman hosts file, software firewall, registry fixer, spybot scanner, spyware scanner, rootkit revealer, popup blocker, startup manager, disk defrag, registry defrag, ... I mostly don't have on my Linux. On Linux I just have my shared hardware firewall, the iptables software firewall, a popup resistant browser, and the traditional choice of what services to startup at boot. And where I had to hunt down and separately download and where appropriate pay for the Windows tools, one at a time, all the Linux tools (except of course for the separate hardware firewall) all come in the distribution, with automatic security patch updates.

You can get a good idea of what is included in the SuSE manual by looking at the table of contents for last years SuSE 9.1 Linux Administration Manual, at: SUSE LINUX Administration Guide.

[this_ol_patriot]

Heh heh, posted this using a Knoppix live CD on the Linux destined computer, only needed 2 tries to get a good boot. Something froze the first time. I guess there is no use in making changes to fonts and stuff using a Live CD, it doesn't store anything for later use on the hd or does it? Well I'll find out soon enough.

Now on to Ubuntu, I want to try the Gnome environment first I'll do a live then if that works an install. Thanks all.