Home Birth vs. The State (for discussion)

Self | 3/11/05 | Bear_Slayer

[Bear_Slayer]

Hypothetical scenario:

A devout Christian couple decides to home-birth.

The mid-wife is asked, "If any complications arise, do not call 911; let us pray first."

The mid-wife declines and will not assist.

The delivery date arrives and a normal healthy baby is born.

Subsequently a 2nd (unknown) twind begins to deliver. The cord is wrapped around the babies neck and it is strangling.

The father begins prayer

In this hypothetical scenario, it is unknown if the father or mother attempts to remove or cut the cord.

Susequently the 2nd child dies

A funeral is held on private property.

[Bear_Slayer]

At what point, if any should the state/county be called?

• Must 911 be called for the emergency?
  
• Must the county be notified of birth/death?
  
• Must county/state be notified of burial?
  
  

  For discussion purposes.

[Bear_Slayer]

a 2nd (unknown) twind

twind=twin

[MikefromOhio]

Question. How did they not know of the 2nd child? That is, I believe, mostly hard to miss given regular doctor's appointments that are the norm with any pregnancy....

[The Old Hoosier]

Unless you're pro-life, I guess it doesn't matter because both babies are non-persons under the law, and the Dems mostly voted against the born-alive infants protection act.

[mrs tiggywinkle]

While midwives don't do ultrasound, they do use heartbeat monitors. A 2nd child would have been detected.

[bahblahbah]

IMHO, yes to all of those. And I would have 911 on speed dial and hold off on the prayers if my baby was strangling on the umbilical cord. I think god would be calling you an idiot in that situation. Also, I don't really see what the big deal is about home birth.

[freds6girlies]

I have four hospital births and three home births.
My midwife would have immediately called 911 or begun transportating to hospital.
Also she would have more than likely know about the second child in the first place.
At any rate in your scenario the hospital would have been notified by the midwife and an investigation would have taken place.

[Bear_Slayer]

Assume that the mid-wife was never used, no traditional healthcare was used. She got pregnant and had a baby, the twin was not known of.

[eccentric]

Even if 911 were called at the first indication of a problem, do you really think emergency personnel would arrive in time to save the 2nd baby? There is plenty of time to pray. Do you think God would not hear the prayers during that time?

[freds6girlies]

Why are you now taking the mid-wife out of the scenario?

Let's go another route.
I know someone who was pregnant.
She miscarried at 5 months.
That's a fully developed, recognizable baby.
That baby is buried on their property.
No authorities were notified.
She had pre-natal by a mid-wife.

[MikefromOhio]

then I dont know.

I know for a fact that when my wife and I are blessed enough to conceive, we WILL have regular doctor's appointments....

[MikefromOhio]

While midwives don't do ultrasound, they do use heartbeat monitors. A 2nd child would have been detected.

I figured as much. This isnt a big issue because the wife and I will do the normal route thing with the Pregnancy, when it comes around.

they are professionals and it doesn't seem as if they are doing anything wrong these days huh?

[eccentric]

Alter the scenario a bit. Not Christian, but perhaps native American living on a traditional reservation, or any culture that prefer their own ways, not modern medicine. The midwife has delivered many babies, and has her own way of dealing with birthing problems. What then?

[Bear_Slayer]

Why are you now taking the mid-wife out of the scenario?

The original assumption is that she was not present for the birth. For further discussion, she was not present to give pre-natal care.

Would it matter? Let say she gave pre-natal and heard a 2nd heartbeat; she could not tell that there might be complications. I don't think an ultrasound could determine that.

[roylene]

Not necessarily .. It is possible that the hearts beats are in sink.
It is also possible that the twins are lying on top of each other, and unless there is a state of the art ultra sound it is possible not even to see the twin.
I know you are skeptical but my cousin was oh so surprised when .. ut oh her twins were triplets.

[Bear_Slayer]

Apart from any moral responsibilty a person might have to notify the state, let me ask this:

What legal responsibility would a person have?

[adamj]

I have a friend who would have died if she had tried to have her baby at home.. why take the risk?

[freds6girlies]

If a mid wife did give pre-natal care and heard a second heart beat you can bet you bottom dollar that if she was competent she would have ordered an ultra sound to see what was going on.
At least mine would have.
Mid wives are not just women who occasionally attend a birthing. For the most part they are very well trained and more competent than o.b's are these days. They are well versed in making sure competent pre-natal care is given so they are aware of a healthy birthing.
And yes ultrasound these days is extremely detailed.
I know another situation that was a complicated birth and the dr.'s were aware of problems before hand because the ultra sound showed where the cord was and that it was only two strands and not the normal three.

[Servant of the 9]

Must 911 be called for the emergency?
Must the county be notified of birth/death?
Must county/state be notified of burial?

Yes
Yes
Yes

And you are going to need a lawyer too for your multiple felonies.

Because, right or wrong, it's the law, and when you want to challenge the law, you have to be prepared to do the time if you can't overturn it.

SO9

[Valpal1]

What legal responsibility would a person have?

Legal responsibility would be determined by the locality where this occurred.

You should determine what that is before you engage in activities that run afoul of local laws.

Generally, you have the right to choose or refuse medical care, calling 911 is not a legal obligation, although some have tried to make it so.

Birthing professionals are required to notify the state of births, in an unattended birth, there is no one present with a legal responsibility to register the birth.

On burial? Different states have different rules on disposal of human remains and where they can be interred. Depends on land use regulations. Burial on family property may or may not require a permit.