Posted on 02/08/2005 8:53:00 AM PST by ricer1
Leonard Nimoy sings "Bilbo Baggins"
You're a scary man, Darksheare.
Did you guys ever realize that Gandalf, according to AD&D rules, is only a 5th Level Magic User?
Horrific idea.
But it works.. oddly..
That rots!
Someone needs to have Fire Unquenchable cast on them for that.
LOL! Thanks for the link!--cool site--bookmarked :-)
I seem to recall an early issue of Dragon where E. Gary Gygax argued that--think I have it reprinted in Best of Dragon 2, IIRC. I usually defer to the pronouncements of Mr. Gygax since after all he invented the game, but in this case I'm inclined to invoke the higher authority of J.R.R. Tolkien. . .Gandalf singlehandedly killed a Balrog (which seems to be equivalent of an AD&D Type VI demon, which has 8 HD) in Fellowship, defeated Saruman (who being the head of an order of wizards seems to be at least 11th level) in Two Towers, and held his own against the army of the Witch-lord of Angmar (who seems to be some type of lich/anti-paladin combination or something) in Return. I'd put him around at least 12th level myself.
The horrific ideas are the ones that work best, as we at BSIC know! :-)
I used to own this record.
Thinking about Sammy Davis Jr. singing "Candyman" should get those other songs out of your head.
Yeah, in this case I'd say that Mr. Gygax kinda shortchanged Gandalf.
Don't forget that Gandalf also, in The Hobbit, snuck into the Necromancer's tower, and found out that the Necromancer was actually Sauron taking shape again.
This is true.
The more traumatized the mind, the easier it is to rule it!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1323944/posts?page=4042#4042
Dream of a distopian future...
True. . .I forgot about that. BTW I always wished Tolkien would've written that scene!--one of the cooler off-screen scenes in The Hobbit.
In thinking about this, I've concluded Gandalf somehow gained a level after his death in Fellowship, contra the normal D&D rules. Also, since in Silmarillion it's revealed that he's really an angel and not a human wizard, does that imply Gandalf is merely his material form?
I think psychologists call that "Bakshi's Law". It was verified through extensive research by the Satellite of Love crew.
Hmm. Yes, it would appear that the Maiar would indeed have merely physical forms.
Sauron was not able to take a form pleasing to human eyes after a certain 'oops'.
Apparently the Maia and the Vala could clothe themselves in a form similar to humans or elves.
Some were bound to those forms, and others appear to have been 'allowed' to interchange between two forms.
I wish Tolkien had written a section about Gandalf's narrow escape from the halls of the Necromancer as well.
Gandalf said he himself had 'narrowly escaped'.
Hmm.. ponderment.
LOL!
Intriguing!
BTW, that reminds me, Gandalf would've had Narya the Great, one of the Three Elven Rings, with him at that time. A pretty major magic item there! Was he able to use it, though? I'm not clear on whether the Three Rings were like the One Ring in that using them corrupted the user. Sauron never touched them, but they were still linked to the One Ring, so presumably Gandalf would've followed his own advice to Frodo not to use it. Still, seems like he'd have to be pretty powerful to be entrusted as the guardian of such an object. The other two guardians were Elrond and Galadriel, so he'd have to be on par with them; and we know from Silmarillion that Elf Lords like Elrond were bad enough to take on whole armies of Morgoth's hordes of dragons and balrogs.
I'm back now.
Orderred my sick kid a Pay Per View Movie and it plays havoc with my bandwidth.
Fedora, i remember that "Dragon" article.
(Yes, I'm old)
Gary Gygax is one of those peeoplee you either worship or loathe.
I'm on the "loathe" side.
Either of you lads ever have the "pleasure" to meet him?
SUCH a jerk, or at leaast he was in the 80's.
Gandalf starts out way smaller in "The Hobbit".
Mostly he does things with Light and Fire, and a translation or two.
He does get a lot more powerful as the books go on.
I never was able to struggle through "the Silmarillion".
This is largely due to having been in the SCA, and having a pontific friend who would invite people in teh household to his house and then read "The Silmarillion" t out loud for hours.
The guy was a Swede, and between the hard benches, and the droning sonorouss voice, it was a lot like doing three or four hours at church :a boring church.
I tried reading it later, but my taste for that particular book had been pretty much ruined.
Maybe he gained experience points along the way? :-)
I never met Gygax, I just remember when he was the big guy in D&D (I'm old, too, LOL!). What was he like in the 80s? There were some others at TSR I thought designed better modules. My friend and I used to joke that Lawrence Schick must be a sadist with a pair of henchlings named Guido and Lefty, his modules were impossible to survive. Then on the other side of things, for crappy modules there was Tracy Hickman, who designed modules which always had cool covers, awesome buildup with picturesque descriptions--and absolutely no monsters.
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