Posted on 01/11/2005 6:18:33 PM PST by malakhi
Ok. It's been 12 posts so I guess you are going to be alright but I still have my cross right here if I need it:')
Hiya Dave,
RE: "To continually post that radical change is only 5 years away is pathetic."
The source(s) claiming that changes are to be made, and that they are about 5 years away were representatives of the church, not me. Here are the sources. (Note "1 spark" is not mentioned in the articles.) ;-)
http://www.lightwatcher.com/spirit_stars/bible_scrolls.html
http://www.public-action.com/x/nh-independent-scrolls/index.jsp
I made an observation as to why I thought it would take them (at least) 5 years to come out with the changes. (So all hell doesn't break loose amongst the faithful)
RE: "Any changes to the Text that come about because of this new information will not change the Faith as it has been understood and transmitted over the ages. To believe so is delusional"
I am not saying that the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls is the only reason the faith is changing. It's only PART of the reason. IMO, the genie is out of the bottle, in part because of the DSS, in part because of the information available for those who seek, in part because of changes within the church, in part because of her fruits.
I wonder if you've missed many a Catholic thread with posters ticked off/aghast/confused over new stuff that's continually coming out of the Vatican. If you can't see the changes Dave, you're only fooling yourself. The writing is on the wall.
Rashi (Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki) is probably the best known and widest-read commentator on the Hebrew scriptures.
Hey, someone had to get that post, otherwise none of our threads would be longer than 665 replies! ;o)
The guy that was actually allowed to debate freely the Jewish posiition with King James II of Spain in the 1200's is pretty good as well. Rambam. The minutes of this debate are spectacular.
Your basic problem here is that the Jews consider their best-scholared-up present-day existing texts to be authoritative. And the Christians consider their best-scholared-up present-day existing texts to be authoritative.
So arguing about what the meaning of certain words in a manuscript is is pointless when the actual argument is about what word belongs there in the first place. In the end, it's about authority. As always.
SD
The source(s) claiming that changes are to be made, and that they are about 5 years away were representatives of the church, not me. Here are the sources. (Note "1 spark" is not mentioned in the articles.) ;-)
You confuse one guy saying that a few "radical" changes might be made to the Biblical text based upon newer archeological information with your continual prophecy of "radical change" coming within the Church and her professed faith.
They aren't the same thing. Like I said, even if the Isaiah passage is better translated as "maiden" that doesn't erase the New Testament. "Radical change" as you expect is not going to happen.
I am not saying that the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls is the only reason the faith is changing. It's only PART of the reason. IMO, the genie is out of the bottle, in part because of the DSS, in part because of the information available for those who seek, in part because of changes within the church, in part because of her fruits.
This is vague mumbo-jumbo. You leap to conclusions based on things you don't understand.
I wonder if you've missed many a Catholic thread with posters ticked off/aghast/confused over new stuff that's continually coming out of the Vatican. If you can't see the changes Dave, you're only fooling yourself. The writing is on the wall.
Thus has it always been. The struggle between good and evil takes place both within and without the Church. There has always been "crisis" and there has always been evil machinations. And yet the Faith prevails. It would be irresistable would you just allow yourself to contemplate it.
For the record one or two crackpots saying stuff in Rome doesn't mean the Faith is changing. You have a very poor grasp of what is important, what is official, and what is but individual opinion.
SD
Sometimes people are distracted. ;-)
Of course, the Catholic church doesn't teach the doctrine of eternal security, so there is no way that a Catholic can "know for sure" that he is saved.
One can know one's present state without bothering about "eternal security." If one follows the Church's precepts and avails oneself of the sacraments, one can know that one's soul is in a state of grace. That's kinda why we were given the Church and the sacraments.
SD
Undoubtedly.
Now, please tell me who was the biological mother of James and Joseph and Simon and Judas and His sisters? Who was their biological father?
Then why did you give me such a hard time? :)
We have no idea.
If it should be proved that the story of the virgin birth was a myth, that the birth of Jesus was through natural means, but that Mary was chosen by God to be the mother of His son what would happen to your faith in God?
(It isn't necessary to waste your time, or mine, with dogmatic answers. If you can't imagine and respond to the "what if" just forget I asked).
There would still be His miracles and His resurrection. My faith would continue.
Becky
OK that's all I wanted you to say. (It isn't like you to waste so much time on a silly subject just for the sake of being argumentative. (Now Dave or me? That's a different story. :-) How cold is it there now? It is unusally cold throught most of the country. My thermometer stores a 24 hour min-max temperature; 8.8 degrees high and 2.2 degrees low, 7.7 right now. Far from the -54 in Minnesota.
Not trying to get under your skin or anything but just curious, how do you know there would be? Hypothetically, if it turned out the writings fabricated the virgin birth what makes you think you could trust them for miracles and a resurrection?
It shouldn't. :-)
SD
Today's high is supposed to be 20. When I turned my car on this morning, its gauge said it was 2 degrees. It was about 6 by the time I got to work.
I have one of those temperature thingies, too. Upgraded this year to the wireless one. It is still near the window so it gets heat from the house throwing it off a bit. Still, last night it read "11" which meant it was about 4 or 5.
SD
Because you're wrong! :o)
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