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To: Darnright

"It's the nature of the beast for adolescent dogs to challenge their owners"

This has not been my experience. The only one that has ever growled at me or been rebellious, was my Alpha dog.


I agree that it does not mean hanging the dog or using a shock collar. Those tools IMO do more harm than good. I have raised German Shepherds and the personality differences are like humans. Some take guidance well and once in a while you run into the Alpha male. You should always use the minimum of discipline, but you do need to be consistant in your demands. An Alpha personality dog will except nothing less.

If this family does not have the ability to get this dog under control, then finding him a home with the police where they have the experience to control that personality is far better than destroying him. He can be both a happy and useful part of our society.


103 posted on 01/09/2005 6:28:20 AM PST by Proud Conservative2 (Gun Control is being able to hit your target!)
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To: Proud Conservative2
I agree that it does not mean hanging the dog or using a shock collar. Those tools IMO do more harm than good.

In the wrong hands, and on soft-willed dogs, I agree shock collars can be harmful. But in defense of them, they saved my ability to hunt and compete in obedience with my late Labrador male. He had a really strong personality, and a sex drive that was more important to him than I was. I'd lose him when hunting, to the other group of hunters a quarter mile away. When I could finally run him down, he'd be trying to mount some other hunter's dog despite our efforts, cringing knowing he was going to get hit and do it anyway. It was worth any consequence I could throw at him, until the collar.

I used it to enforce two off-leash commands, "come" and "stay". I don't mean zapping the heck out of the dog, I mean having the ability to reach out over long distances and enforce a very necessary command that he ~knows~ but is ignoring. There is no substitute for off-leash remote control. It is much more humane than trying to punish him when I finally ran him down, much more humane than him getting hit by a car because he wasn't under control. When he put it on, he got excited because it was work time. He didn't resent it. It wasn't abused.

104 posted on 01/09/2005 6:52:38 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
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To: Proud Conservative2
I disagree re the shock collar.

In the wrong hands it can be punitive, but it's absolutely necessary to hunt over a strong willed dog and if judiciously used is perfectly humane.

Only commands I enforce with the collar are "come", "sit", and "take it" (force fetch). The first two are first and foremost safety issues.

I have never burned my dog (held the button down) only nicked her (a momentary correction). She is now a joy to field trial (of course electronic collars aren't permitted on the field during competition) and I can't remember the last time I actually had to use it.

109 posted on 01/09/2005 10:19:52 AM PST by AnAmericanMother (. . . Ministrix of ye Chace (recess appointment), TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary . . .)
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To: Proud Conservative2

>"It's the nature of the beast for adolescent dogs to challenge their owners"

This has not been my experience. The only one that has ever growled at me or been rebellious, was my Alpha dog.<

You've never, ever had a 1 to 2 year old dog disobey a down (my Malinois will go into an exaggerated bow position, when told to down by my daughter, all the while grinning in doggy fashion), keep sniffing some smell when you call, or get up on your place on the couch? The challenge from a dog can be pretty subtle, and it's not confined to growling.

>If this family does not have the ability to get this dog under control, then finding him a home with the police where they have the experience to control that personality is far better than destroying him. He can be both a happy and useful part of our society.<

I will agree that this is an alternative solution to the one I suggested. However, something must be done with this dog to bring him back to safe behavior.


145 posted on 01/09/2005 4:24:07 PM PST by Darnright
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