Posted on 01/08/2005 5:49:18 PM PST by WHATNEXT?
My beautiful German Shepherd has become more agressive lately and the time to decide his future is upon us before something happens to us or someone else.
We got him from a breeder of Schuntzhund shepherds. We took him to some training until we decided he was to inclined to be aggressive and that Schuntzhund training was not what he needed. His breeder even told us she knew he would bite (saw it in him as a puppy -- but big money made her not mention it to us apparently--that was the last time we took him to Schuntzhund -- at least 8-9 months ago). We struggled with discipline and attempting to make sure he knew who the boss was.
We decided to neuter him in the slight hope that his aggression would modify. This took away any value of him in field trials or obviously breeding. We had not purchased him to train as a champion, only for a sense of security in a rural setting and after mourning our previous Shepherd for over 2 years, to seek another wonderful Shepherd.
Over the holidays we had company staying in our home that he growled at (he knew them), he growled at both my husband and myself, and he did slightly break my husband's skin on his arm. This morning I leaned over to pet his head and he growled, I strongly reprimanded him, he continued to growl, I demanded that he get out the front door, which he did but growling all the way. He has spent the day outside. He has always growled over his food (we swore we would never tolerate that behavior). We don't think we could ever trust himk with our little grandchildren
So, we have hit the end of our road with him. He is only 19 months old, beautiful, very intelligent and has does have many pleasing personality traits. Our choices: Shepherd rescue group (we will try but most needing rescue are under different circumstances), dog pound, training (we have tried and I'm no soft touch) or euthansia.
This is so depressing.
"loyalty and fidelity, especially to its owner or main caretaker."
And here's what they say at the Schuntzhund site, which you're probably familiar with:
"The German Shepherd Dog should not be timid or react nervously to unusual sounds or sights. A dog that is overly aggressive because of its overall fears of people and events can be extremely dangerous."
http://www.germanshepherddog.com/schutzhund/faqs.htm#choose_puppy
Best of luck with yours. I know we sure loved our Mastiffs.
We do love him, but he is ours, we are not his, in any way shape or form.
I admit that your post caused me some concern, and that's why I asked if mastiffs invariably become unpredictable...I am interested in your posts, and will tuck them into my mind for the future...
In our family, one SIL had a large breed dog that big the face and caused permanent scars to the daughter of another SIL. They don't speak to this day, because SIL #1 refused to put the dog down. I could never allow an aggressive animal--or an untrained animal--to live around me, I would have to have him put down myself. SIL #2 has 2 newfies in the house, and I've always thought they were less reliable in temperament than the mastiffs...
"nadectomy. Has he had his cojones excised?..."
No....don't worry Friedrich...it's about DOGS. Calm down.
I know, why don't they go back to calling them "Alsacians?!"
Go back to sleep. I'll wake you if there's anything about REAL German Shepherds.
First of all, before you kill this dog, go join the following Yahoo group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/agbeh/
Here's the description below. I recommend it highly. I can't recommend it strongly enough to you:
Here in the Aggressive Behaviors in Dogs group, experienced dog trainers (more than 260 from around the world) discuss with pet dog owners how to modify the behavior of dogs which sometimes exhibit aggressive behaviors toward dogs and/or toward people. Some problem behaviors may arise from illness, but oftentimes aggressive behaviors arise from dogs' fears or anxieties. We believe that harsh training and physical punishments may make the problems worse.
Trainers give suggestions on safe home management and on using positive-reinforcement methods for teaching new skills. A major emphasis is on behavior modification to help desensitize dogs to reduce their anxieties to particular stimuli.
Only "dog-friendly" recommendations are permitted, such as positive reinforcement methods for teaching. No choke chains or leash-jerk corrections, or electronic shock collars here!
K9 unit maybe?
Local cops or military might be worth checking with them.
You idiots, kill the D@MN DOG!
Sounds flaky. These are 'no jerking, spanking' people, and I wouldn't trust them to teach a dog to sit-stay reliably. Clicker-trainer people can be trusted with Goldens and Labradors and Shelties that are good out of the box. Corrective training means being able to enforce "no".
Correction.... 'no jerking, no spanking' people.
Not the right answer.
I have a supervisor at work that has trained all of her dogs this way. She also rescues dogs. She has four, two of which come to work every day and stay in her car because they fight with the other dogs. None of them will sit or come without being told several times. They would not last long at my house.
I've read through the others' comments and wanted to add my own. I have raised Rottweilers all my life - so, I know a bit about large, protective dogs.
I would first have him checked to see if he is ill. He may be in pain and this is his way of handling it.
If he is not ill or injured, I recommend putting him down. You cannot take the risk to yourself, your family and friends. Some dogs just won't domesticate. This will be a horrible day and you will feel guilt for a while - but you will also know it was the right thing to do.
Good luck... my heart breaks for you.
I have a White Shep, and she is unpredictable at best, but
have you considered maybe your dog doesnt like you or your husband,dogs definitely have their own personalities?
I met plenty of those positive reinforcement people showing dogs. They do really well with really compliant dogs that live only to please, and stand there wide-eyed in contemplation of a dog that has his own agenda.
Believe me, I am all for positive reinforcement. I love my dogs. But a headstrong dog without consequences sometimes doesn't care if you aren't pleased. You need to have both the carrot and the stick. Rejecting any training device right at the outset tells me these people are not ready to solve real problem dogs. They're like the Richard Shrake "Dealing with the Problem Horse" video where the example horse never so much as swishes a tail in resistance.
If you want to get rid of him I will certainly take him
I need a friend for my girl shep. she is about one hundred pounds and as crazy as a loon but Im sure they'd be best of friends. Ive got a big yard and a kennel linked to the garage perfect for unruly cannines. Also lots of kids around to bark and growl at!
How many aggressive dogs have you successfully rehabilitated? This dog has been "trained" in Schutzhund, by a person without much experience. Do you know how a dog with a dominant personality, or worse a fearful dog, will react when subjected to harsh training methods, particularly when one family member is "harsh" (as stated on this thread), and one family member is permissive? They will escalate aggression. This dog is going to hurt someone, soon.
Have you ever heard of the "Nothing In Life Is Free" training method? The trainers on the board I mentioned, who have plenty of experience successfully rehabilitating dogs with aggression problems, use this method. It works FAR better than hanging a dog 'til it is near death like some of the Schutzhund macho jerks suggest.
This dog's very life depends on the owner getting a handle on his potentially dangerous behavior. I am familiar with the methods used by the trainers on AGBEH, and they work (and I have a few years of training experience, around 35 or thereabouts) if followed correctly.
I agree with you on that part.
I have quite a bit of experience with dogs and dog people, both hard and soft, and I gave my opinion about both. You, and this owner, can take it or leave it.
Huh? my dog bites me all the time. If I don't like it, I bite her back!
The method used was to imitate the signals dogs send each other. When a dog allows another dog to place its neck over its own neck, this is a sign of submissiveness. If the dog does not allow this, it means he has not accepted the other as his master, and they will fight.
So (now don't laugh here), you get down on all fours, and cautiously approach your dog and see if it will allow you to place your neck over its neck. If it resists, then he doesn't consider you the master. They would keep working with a stubborn dog until it yielded. If you can force the dog to accept this, then perhaps it could learn to be more submissive.
If nothing else, this was good for a laugh (though I'm dying to know if it really works --- lol)
Unfortunately, I have to agree with many other posters here, that it might be genetic --- it might be best to put the dog down. It would cause you more pain if your dog seriously injured or killed someone than it would to have the dog put down.
You have a dangerous dog. Your family is in danger. Do something.
>I gave my opinion
I'd encourage you, if you are interested, to subscribe to the list for a bit, if nothing else to lurk. I too am not impressed with "clicker training". I tell my human kid "no", and I am by golly gonna have situations where precious little Phydeaux will hear the "n" word from on high now and then.
The folks who post on AGBEH have had a lot of success, and they have a lot to offer. I don't agree with everything everyone on there posts, but I've seen successes with their methods. I would not suggest to this GSD's owner to join if I didn't think they had a high probability of helping her.
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