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To: grellis
one complete (insert expletive here) even had the raw nerve to refer to the adoptive parents of foreign-born children as traitors to America.

Oh. My. Gosh.

The hottest opprobrium is too cool for that attitude.

Changing topics to your larger theme: my own stance is to be judgmental, and charitable at the same time.

I think some choices are superior to others (HSing, SAHMing, for instance). But I also am too painfully aware that circumstances beyond our control often necessitate choices other than what we would make in different circumstances.

My central concerns would be twofold, I suppose:

1. Are the parents' values in the right place?

2. If they feel forced to make less-than-ideal choices, is it really unavoidable? Or is it because they have (falsely) adopted peripheral values (i.e. a certain material standard of living) as if they were central?

Dan
Biblical Christianity web site
Biblical Christianity message board
Biblical Christianity BLOG

17 posted on 12/03/2004 7:42:34 AM PST by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
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To: BibChr

Well put. There's a difference between showing respect for the people who make different choices from us, because they are people, and saying that all the choices themselves are equal.


21 posted on 12/03/2004 7:52:08 AM PST by Tax-chick (Poison ivy berries are a favorite food of the Downy Woodpecker.)
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To: BibChr

>>My central concerns would be twofold, I suppose:

1. Are the parents' values in the right place?

2. If they feel forced to make less-than-ideal choices, is it really unavoidable? Or is it because they have (falsely) adopted peripheral values (i.e. a certain material standard of living) as if they were central?<<

Dan- you have brought up a valid point. I think we as SAHMs or HSMs get flippy when we see the "I'm doing the best for my child." that is not really the best. Here is an example.

I watched a 14 month old when my older daughter was 12 months. These girls were the best of friends so I loved being paid 2 bucks an hour for a playmate.
The mother lived with the father of this child (had an older girl from another man living with her mother). The father drove a milk delivery truck to the tune of 60,000 a year and got free eggs, milk and dairy products. The mom worked under the table for a group of dry cleaners at 10.00 an hour (tax free). The little girl was violent and sometimes nasty. At one point I thought of telling the mom that I couldn't watch her because of the danger to my own daughter. Columbine happened and I thought, this could be this girl if she doesn't have some stability in her life. I was her only stability.
The mom got to a point where she was working 12 hour days. The child saw her parents only on the weekends. She came to calling my hubby, Daddy. After a while, my hubby said, "Either her mom needs to cut back hours or we get the tax break on this kid."
(Please understand at this point that the mom was on welfare as well because she was not married to the father and worked under the table).
I told the mom that I would not be able to watch the little girl 12 hours a day anymore. She was not happy. I asked her why she felt a need to work that much. She truly said that she was doing it FOR the child. This girl had every toy that one could buy, a tv that was so big that if you laid it down, it stretched across the livingroom and the parents drove new cars.

It's tough not being judgemental sometimes.


24 posted on 12/03/2004 8:04:07 AM PST by netmilsmom (Zell on DEM Christianity, "They can hum the tune, but can't sing the song.")
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To: BibChr
Changing topics to your larger theme: my own stance is to be judgmental, and charitable at the same time.

It is an awfully fine line, especially when we don't know the circumstances. There were a few FReepers on the "Paradigm" thread who took the time to explain why they live in expensive communities and have to have both parents employed to continue living where they do--and they were circumstances as opposed to excuses. There were other FReepers who fell silent and I find myself wondering why.

The more I think about the "So move!" attitude, which as I have said is one I have had in the past, the more angry I get about it. I do live in an affordable community. Guess what? We have dark clouds over here. Yes, I can afford to be a SAHM. However, I have rental properties on either side of me--both owned by slumlords. Two years ago we went an entire summer without being able to play in our own backyard because one of my neighboring tenants was a crack dealer. Two doors down from me, right now, there is a panhandling, heroin-addicted prostitute. When she's coherent, she's a very friendly lady. Her johns have taken to door-to-door panhandling, however, and these are scary guys. When someone knocks at my door lately, I answer it with an 8" chef's knife in one hand and the dog in another. Affordable communities may have some perks, but they have their down sides as well.

62 posted on 12/03/2004 11:45:47 AM PST by grellis ("I went to a Basketball game and a Music Awards Ceremony broke out"--discipler)
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