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Urinal Named As Most Influencial Art
AP via Yahoo! News ^ | 12-1-04

Posted on 12/01/2004 12:57:36 PM PST by Oldeconomybuyer

LONDON - A porcelain urinal is the most influential work of modern art, according to a survey released Wednesday.

The poll of 500 arts figures ranked French surrealist Marcel Duchamp's 1917 piece "Fountain" — an ordinary white, porcelain urinal — more influential than Pablo Picasso's "Les Demoiselles d'Avignon," Andy Warhol's screen prints of Marilyn Monroe and "Guernica," Picasso's searing depiction of the devastation of war.

Duchamp pioneered the use of everyday objects as art, an aesthetic that questioned the nature of art itself.

Art expert Simon Wilson said the choice of Duchamp's urinal "comes as a bit of a shock."

"But it reflects the dynamic nature of art today and the idea that the creative process that goes into a work of art is the most important thing — the work itself can be made of anything and can take any form," he said.

The survey was conducted by Gordon's Gin, which sponsor's Britain's leading art prize, the Turner Prize. The winner of this year's Turner Prize is due to be announced next Tuesday.


TOPICS: Arts/Photography
KEYWORDS: antiart; art; artsnobs; badart; britishart; bsartist; bsartists; dontdrinkhere; duchamp; emperorsnewclothes; england; fountain; gordonsgin; greatbritain; liberalelites; marcelduchamp; modernart; modernism; postmoderism; potty; stuckism; surrealism; turnerprize; uk; urinal
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1 posted on 12/01/2004 12:57:37 PM PST by Oldeconomybuyer
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

The urinal is the most used dumping area.


2 posted on 12/01/2004 12:58:52 PM PST by lilylangtree (Veni, Vidi, Vici)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

And according to the artists, Bill Clinton was the greatest President.


3 posted on 12/01/2004 12:59:00 PM PST by Brilliant
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To: Brilliant

An appropriate place for most modern art.


4 posted on 12/01/2004 1:00:19 PM PST by SlowBoat407 (Couldn't you have stopped shooting at us and watched your baby grow instead?)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

"The survey was conducted by Gordon's Gin..."

Gee, I think mass consumption of Gin gives the urinal art an unfair advantage in the survey (so to say).


5 posted on 12/01/2004 1:02:37 PM PST by YouPosting2Me
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Well, isn't that a Pisser...


6 posted on 12/01/2004 1:03:17 PM PST by Chad Fairbanks ('Hate' is just a special kind of Love we give to people who suck.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
"But it reflects the dynamic nature of art today and the idea that the creative process that goes into a work of art is the most important thing — the work itself can be made of anything and can take any form," he said

...desperately trying to inject a shred of credibility back into the miserable and pathetic world into which art has degenerated.

7 posted on 12/01/2004 1:03:19 PM PST by TChris (You keep using that word. I don't think it means what yHello, I'm a TAGLINE vir)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
But it reflects the dynamic nature of art today and the idea that the creative process that goes into a work of art is the most important thing

No one who holds process above output is worth the oxygen they're using.

8 posted on 12/01/2004 1:03:31 PM PST by Psycho_Bunny (“I know a great deal about the Middle East because I’ve been raising Arabian horses" Patrick Swazey)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
The poll of 500 arts figures...

"Arts figures"? What the hell is that? Does anyone actually speak like this??

Maybe an "arts figure" is that little miniature wooden guy they sell in the art supply store. (Or is he the "arts action figure"?)

9 posted on 12/01/2004 1:11:24 PM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
For a urinal that is art, I vote for the Virgin Atlantic Airways Lips urinals in JFK that they briefly installed then removed.


10 posted on 12/01/2004 1:28:31 PM PST by Yo-Yo
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To: Yo-Yo
Another couple of "shots":

Offered for sale by Bathroom-Mania

11 posted on 12/01/2004 1:36:28 PM PST by Yo-Yo
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Reminds me of an R Lee Ermey quote.

"Did you're parents have any children that lived? I bet they regret that! You're so ugly you could be a modern art masterpiece!!!!"

12 posted on 12/01/2004 8:22:06 PM PST by Dan from Michigan ("now we got this guy in the Oval office who don't take no sh*t from no gimpy little countries!")
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Well "of course" it was "the most important" which is what is wrong with the art world today and virtually all "modern art".

It was art only because Duchamp SAID IT WAS. Take it home, out of the museum setting or gallery and it is NOT art.

There is a fine line between being "clever" and being "stupid".

Billy Childish helped to found an art movement in England (that seems to have spread) called Stuckism precisely because of this piece and the awful "awards" for animal carcasses, empty rooms, etc.

13 posted on 12/02/2004 2:56:17 AM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
http://www.stuckism.com/StuckistAntiAntiArt.html

(est. 1999)



Anti-anti-art

The Spirit of what needs to be done


1. The Stuckists are anti-anti-art.


2. Conceptual art (and its parochial manifestation as Brit Art) is based on and justified by the art of Marcel Duchamp.

3. The art of Marcel Duchamp is not art. It is anti-art by intent and effect.


4.To justify anti-art there must be the existence of art.


5. Duchamp's work was a protest against the stale, unthinking artistic establishment of his day.

6. Today's art is anti-art.


7. Today's art is not art. Its working methodology is to think of something which is not art and to call it art. This is exactly Duchamp's ideology.

8. (Conceptualism is so called not because it generates a plethora of concepts, but because it never manages to progress beyond one single concept, namely Duchamp's original thought.)


9. The great (but wholly unintentional) irony of Post Modernism is that it is a direct equivalent of the conformist, unoriginal establishment that Duchamp attacked in the first place.


10. The principle of anti-art is meaningless in the absence of art to be anti.


11. The only viable innovation today is the true Duchampian path of anti-pretentious, self-congratulatory, claustrophobic, talentless artistic conformism, e.g. the Saatchi Gallery.


12. The Stuckists are the true inheritors of the spirit of what needs to be done.

13. Anti-anti-art is for art.




Billy Childish

Charles Thomson

11.4.2000


Published by The Hangman Bureau of Enquiry

11 Boundary Road, Chatham, Kent ME4 6TS
14 posted on 12/02/2004 2:58:57 AM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
http://www.stuckism.com/remod.html

A Stuckist document

The first Remodernist art group

(est. 1999)



Remodernism

'towards a new spirituality in art'




Through the course of the 20th century Modernism has progressively lost its way, until finally disintegrating into crass Post-Modern commercialism. At this appropriate time, The Stuckists, the first Remodernist Art Group, announce the birth of Remodernism.



1. Remodernism is the rebirth of spiritual art.


2. Remodernism takes the original principles of Modernism and reapplies them, highlighting vision as opposed to formalism.


3. Remodernism upholds the spiritual vision of the founding fathers of Modernism and respects their bravery and integrity in facing and depicting the travails of the human soul through a new art that was no longer subservient to a religious or political dogma and which sought to give voice to the gamut of the human psyche.


4. Remodernism discards and replaces Post-Modernism because of its failure to answer or address any important issues of being a human being.


5. Modernism has never fulfilled its potential. It is futile to be 'post' something which has not even 'been' properly something in the first place.


6. Remodernism is inclusive rather than exclusive and welcomes artists who endeavour to know themselves and find themselves through art processes that strive to connect and include, rather than alienate through elitism.


7. Remodernism embodies spiritual depth and meaning and brings to an end an age of scientific materialism, nihilism and spiritual bankruptcy.


8. We don't need more dull, boring, brainless destruction of convention, what we need is not new, but perennial.


9. Spirituality is the journey of the soul on earth. Its first principle is a declaration of intent to face the truth. Truth is what it is, regardless of what we want it to be.


10. True art is the visible manifestation, evidence and facilitator of the souls journey.


11. Being a spiritual artist means addressing unflinchingly our projections, good and bad, the attractive and the grotesque, our strengths as well as our delusions, in order to know ourselves and thereby our true relationship with others and our connection to the divine.


12. Spiritual art is not about fairyland. It is about taking hold of the rough texture of life. It is about addressing the shadow and making friends with wild dogs. Spirituality is the awareness that everything in life is for a higher purpose.


13. Spiritual art is the painting of things that touch the soul of the artist. Spiritual art does not mean the painting of Madonnas or Buddhas.


14. Spiritual art does not often look very spiritual, it looks like everything else because spirituality includes everything.


15. Spiritual art mediates between the mundane and the unconscious. By definition, the unconscious is what we need to explore and integrate.


16. It should be noted that technique is dictated by, and only necessary to the extent to which it is commensurate with, the vision of the artist.


17. Spiritual art is not religion. Spirituality is humanity's quest to understand itself and finds its symbology through the clarity and integrity of its artists.


18. Why do we need a new spirituality in art? Because connecting in a meaningful way is what makes people happy. Being understood and understanding each other makes life enjoyable and worth living.


19. We need an art that integrates body and soul and recognises enduring and underlying principles which have sustained wisdom and insight throughout humanity's history. This is the proper function of tradition.


20. The Remodernist's job is to bring God back into art but not as God was before. Remodernism is not a religion, but we uphold that it is essential to regain enthusiasm (from the Greek, en theos to be possessed by God).


21. The making of true art is man's desire to communicate with himself, his fellows and his God. Art that fails to address these issues is not art.






Summary

It is quite clear to anyone of an uncluttered mental disposition that what is now put forward, quite seriously, as art by the ruling elite, is proof that a seemingly rational development of a body of ideas has gone seriously awry. The principles on which Modernism was based are sound, but the conclusions that have now been reached from it are preposterous.

We address this lack of meaning, so that a coherent art can be achieved and this imbalance redressed.

Let there be no doubt, there will be a spiritual renaissance in art because there is nowhere else for art to go. Stuckism's mandate is to initiate that spiritual renaissance now.




Billy Childish

Charles Thomson

1.3.2000


Published by The Hangman Bureau of Enquiry

11 Boundary Road, Chatham, Kent ME4 6TS

15 posted on 12/02/2004 3:03:49 AM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
The survey was conducted by Gordon's Gin, which sponsor's Britain's leading art prize, the Turner Prize. The winner of this year's Turner Prize is due to be announced next Tuesday.

Any wagers on what will win this year?

Maybe a live bunny with a pancake on its head?

How about a plate of crushed crackers?

16 posted on 12/02/2004 3:08:23 AM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
...Gordon's Gin, which sponsor's Britain's leading art prize, the Turner Prize

Eureka, I've got it!

A bowl of raisins:


17 posted on 12/02/2004 3:13:10 AM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: 537cant be wrong; Aeronaut; bassmaner; chilepepper; Cutterjohnmhb; Churchjack; Conservative Lion; ..

Rock and Roll PING! email Weegee to get on/off this list (or grab it yourself to PING the rest)

R&R PING because of my inclusion of several manifestos from Billy Childish who has been rocking since 1978 and has put out over 100 albums since that time (and even more singles) as well as producing/launching countless related bands/careers.

The "biggest" he has gotten in that time was Thee Headcoats album (and a compilation album of several of his bands) on Sub-Pop and protoge Holly Golighly appearing on the White Stripes album (leading to her own big label deal in recent years).

TheeBillyChildish.com

His site lists "over 1000" songs he wrote although he acknowledges that some of the titles are doubled and trippled up (he also has not entered everything in).

Anyone who covers Link Wray can't be all bad...

18 posted on 12/02/2004 3:31:58 AM PST by weegee (WE FOUGHT ZOGBYISM November 2, 2004 - 60 Million Voters versus 60 Minutes - BUSH WINS!!!)
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To: weegee
This is so incredibly exciting. I had no idea that there were other artists interested in spiritual qualities. It's what guides my art.

I've been busy teaching and unable to get onto FR to read much nor to make intelligent responses. If you make more cool posts like this, let me know. (Yeah, right...I haven't figured an easy way to do this post to those interested in future posts, but its worth a try.)

I'm about to comment on the lips urinals. Those are GREAT and so much better than Duchamp's recycled b.s.!!!

19 posted on 12/03/2004 4:13:47 PM PST by Republicanprofessor
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To: Yo-Yo
I'm only belatedly catching up with interesting art posts while I've been busy.

These lips urinals are the coolest things I've ever seen. I think they beat Duchamp's urinal hands down. They are going into my classes for sure!

20 posted on 12/03/2004 4:16:45 PM PST by Republicanprofessor
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