Posted on 11/25/2004 11:35:44 AM PST by A. Pole
I have the following question:
I see that many Ukrainians claim that Russia is not the legitimate inheritor of Kievan Rus, that the present Ukraine is.
Do you want to change the name of Ukraine into "Rus"? If not, why?
HAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA thats hysterical! and a. *ole, honestly, i didnt even do that. your fame must be catching on! damn, that made me laugh.
Err... and how, exactly, does this thread bash Ukraine?
It is a Uke bashing thread, isn't it?
Why else put Ukrainian in quotes - implying so-called, i.e. they're really Russians.
Father Stalin is smiling in his grave at you -- that one of his "minions" is posting here! Smile back at your poster of Stalin on your basement wall.
Name-calling such as this is what makes me even more sure that your Socialist-supported candidate is a huge mistake for Ukraine.
I cannot judge what candidate is good for Ukraine - I don't really follow their politics, as far as I'm concerned, if the elections results are in doubt, take it to the courts, rerun the elections and let the people decide.
Some might consider this thread a bit provocative but the historical background of the question could be interesting.
The population in 1928 was 149,900,000, so there were plenty of 'em. He also murdered many other ethnic minorities. I agree, SH even looks a bit like Stalin, and patterned himself after him. Sooner SH is gone, the better.
and your soviet supported candidate is wrong for everyone.
The population in 1928 was 149,900,000, so there were plenty of 'em.
Excellent!</sarcasm> I guess, Stalin's thinking was pretty much along the same lines
Please! I can smell an agenda a mile away.
If you can't prove (to my biased satisfaction) that Ukrainians aren't really and truly Russians, then why protest re-unification w/ Mother Russia?
Forget 'nuisance' American Values: democracy, rule of law, legitimacy of government, will of the people, forget your Founding Fathers, etc., etc. --
IT's all marketing - re-name Ukrainians 'Russians' and and we're one big happy family again.
puh-leeze!
Kievan Rus fell to Batu Khan in December 1240. It was ruled by the Golden Horde from Sarai after the conquest. Subsequently, Ukraine was ruled at different times by Poles, Krim Tartars, and eventually, the Russians. During WW I the Germans got most of it in the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk. Western Ukraine was part of Poland until Hitler and Stalin carved Poland up in 1939. In short, I think the history is too complicated to consider Ukraine a successor to Kiev as a polity. As a culture, however, their claim is much stronger than Muscovy's.
Djugashvili changed his name to a Russian sounding name with an -in ending, "Stalin" in order to dissacociate himself with his Georgian heritage. He thought the supplicant Georgians were weak and contemptible. Self-hatred is a common malady of communists.
In 1921 when the Bolsheviks invaded and conqured Georgia, Stalin was on their side, not Georgia's.
Stalin exiled hundreds of thousands from Georgia for allegedly collaborating with the Nazis.
many russians were moved in to russify ukraine. meanwhile ukrainians were moved out. it was the attempted forced destruction of a country and a people.
Wow, am I being promoted to the status of dictator?! I am flattered. So where is my palace? And do not forget to clean my shoes!
Polski Pan.
Getting a little too suspicious? I put quotes because I questioned the name "Ukrainian" and also to address the Galichan faction.
If you do not like names like Little Rus (Malorus) or Ukraine (the border of Rus) and you claim to be the original Rus, why don't you name yourself Rus/Rusin/Ruski etc? One would think that your are proud of Kievan Rus (and possibly of Novgorod Rus).
"Mixed bunch"? I guess it is safest to blame the Russians then :)
There were two brothers, Karl and "Henry" in the group and they were captured by the Nazis after the fall of Warsaw. They had been Polish soldiers.
I got to know them when I went to work on My Uncle's farm... my dad wanted me to get a feel for HARD WORK... some Dads are "good" like that... :> )
Anyway, the thing is that I found about the concentration camp Auchwitz from them. OH!! MY GOD, Those stories. You know we heard stories from soldiers and such and we read the newspapers... but these guys gave me an earful.
They looked pretty roughen up and raggedy you know what I mean. One had had a pretty bad wound but he said by the Grace Of God, only did he live.
The two former soldiers said that they had guards at the concentration camp who were Ukrainian Nazis and showed them no mercy to them AT ALL, just because they were Polish soldiers.
The point of this is that, while much wrong doing has gone down the pike, so to speak, the fact is.... people of all kinds do bad stuff.... and do it often. No so-called ethnic group is PURE and innocent and has always been the victim.
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