I asked my close liberal friend and fishing buddy to explain why he hates Bush so much. It's something I've never understood.
The answer he gave was that he hates Bush because Bush is not a liberal, because Bush doesn't respect other cultures, and because Bush is arrogant.
Only the first complaint is true, but truthfully, none of those qualities justify the hatred that liberals (including my buddy) feel for W. So, clearly, even my liberal friend doesn't understand his hatred.
I'm going to guess that the real reason for liberal hatred for W is that liberals understand that Bush is not afraid to stand up for his convictions, regardless of polls or approval ratings (this they interpret as arrogance). Bush has the strength of character to be a history maker. Liberals fear that Bush might actually defeat terrorism, might actually defeat poverty, might actually prove once and for all the hollowness of leftist (Democratic) policies. The hatred thus grows out of this fear.
I find myself avoiding my family, especially this month.
I have also been subjected to screaming attacks bordering on assault from various siblings and inlaws because they hate our President, etc., etc.
I just pray for grace to deal with the resentment, and avoid them. It helps.
I will be thinking of you as you struggle with this problem.
I've lost friendships over this, but the way I see it, it's not my loss.
I never apologize for who I am - ever. I relish political arguments. And if the Lefty who I'm arguing rests their case on non-logical arguments, it's clear how I think of them.
Let's say I had a brother or sister who approved of Palestinians blowing up innocent Israelis. Such a position is evil and that fact can't be ignored. It will effect my opinion about that person - regardless of my blood relationship to them.
Put another way, if my brother killed someone. I'd turn him in - in a heartbeat. No questions asked.
Morality (the right or wrong decisions one makes or avoids as to what if good for life) is more significant than blood.
I am the only member of a large family who is not a Democrat. All my many siblings and parents are Democrats, but some of them are fairly conservative. I could probably win a few over if I really tried, but I simply cannot get myself to make the effort, primarily because I would be going directly against my father, a man I love and respect more than anything. He is always making sure the rest of the family toes the line. The problem with him is that he has fully drank of the Democrat Kool-Aide this time around. Full Tin-Foil helmet, Bush is Hitler and Rove is the Devil. I almost feel sorry for him, I wonder if it is hs advancing age.
In family settings, no one discusses politics with me in the room. They know I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut, and I think they feel sorry for me having to do so. On the few occasions when we do "discuss" politics, it is not a contest. FActs trump their reality, but I end up kinda looking like a know-it-all a$$hole, and I feel kinda crappy anyways..
I can't wait for this election to be over, however if/when Bush wins, my father will probably become even more miserable. Since his retirement, all he does is watch CNN all day...
I'm in the same boat big time. My entire family lives in and around Boston (Somerville, Charlestown, Dorchester, Weymouth, Woburn...Big Irish family on both sides). My parents are conservatives, but my brother, his wife, all my aunts and uncles...all heavy democrats. We just don't talk politics that much. Although I must say I can have a rational conversation with all of them. We respect each other's views. I can't say there's ever been any real vitriol, especially between my brother and I. Deep down I can't figure it out though. He's a Marine and an avid Bush detractor. Most of it stems from Bush's lack of a solid miliatry background (even rabid freepers would have to admit there's much truth in that)But hey, he's my brother and I love him. Same goes with my uncles (a couple of Harvard and Columbia grads...too smart for their own good!) At least we all agree on the Sox...
My husband and I are hosting Thanksgiving dinner this year. As of this moment, I do not know if any of my siblings will be here.
I'm in the same boat big time. My entire family lives in and around Boston (Somerville, Charlestown, Dorchester, Weymouth, Woburn...Big Irish family on both sides). My parents are conservatives, but my brother, his wife, all my aunts and uncles...all heavy democrats. We just don't talk politics that much. Although I must say I can have a rational conversation with all of them. We respect each other's views. I can't say there's ever been any real vitriol, especially between my brother and I. Deep down I can't figure it out though. He's a Marine and an avid Bush detractor. Most of it stems from Bush's lack of a solid miliatry background (even rabid freepers would have to admit there's much truth in that)But hey, he's my brother and I love him. Same goes with my uncles (a couple of Harvard and Columbia grads...too smart for their own good!) At least we all agree on the Sox...
Jenya: Boy do I feel your pain! I asked my mom why she is voting for John Kerry and she said because the democratic party picked him. I asked a few other questions about him to test her knowledge about him. Well needless to say she knew nothing about the man.
My grandmother likes to rant about how she is a democrat and proud of it.
On my last visit to my sister’s house, my brother in law had a screen saver picture on his pc with John Kerry and John Lennon from the late 60's or early 70's.
My sister sent me that resume of George bush that was posted on the internet and I responded to all the accusations with the facts and could not help inserting an a$$clown award jpg I found right here on FR.
When I do engage in conversations with them on issues, I present the facts they tend to state feelings. I do think I hold my ground without getting any one upset though.
Good luck. I also think it's natural to feel resentful towards someone who supports something you think will be harmful to yourself and your way of life. OTOH, don't let a loser like John Kerry come between you and your brother...he's not worth it.
My baby brother is a lib, and honestly, the only one I know that walks the walk--
He spent 10 years in a commune, is totally vegan and he rides a bike everywhere. He has a house in which he rents out rooms, but sleeps out back in a small shed. He is very active causes he believes in and that is is whole life. We tease him about being a closet capitalist because between the house and the odd jobs, he makes a great living.
He lives off of less than $400 a month, and makes money when he needs it by being an amazing craftsman. My house wouldn't be finished if it wasn't for him. It was a great act of love (twice in fact) when he came down to work on it with me. Because it stood for everything he hates.
Anyhow, in someways he is a wackaloon. But the family motto is "We are all just various degrees of high functioning crazy people." Seriously, sometimes I worry about him because he is so full of doom and gloom about the world and the future.
But when we are together, we pretty much avoid talking politics and just enjoy eachothers company.
My husband is a liberal Massachusetts Democrat and I think all of his siblings are too. We just don't talk about politics. Life goes on. Civilized people can agree to disagree. We survived 8 years of Bill Clinton, they have survived four years of George Bush. I think it is good to have people of all stripes in your family and circle of friends. We are becoming a polarized country, and only hanging out with people who think the same way makes it worse.
I try to still pray for them however.
I was raised up north in a liberal union town so most of my family are union democrats.
I've got one brother who is perverse and mindlessly liberal. I talk to him about once every four or five years when I can't avoid it any longer. He seems to be hungry for our attention but again I can't bring myself to be around someone who is a danger to me, and moreso to my children. (He lives in Texas so his vote doesn't hurt us)
I have a sister who lives way up north who is a JOhn KErry supporter (somewhat like an athletic supporter but smells worse). She won't discuss politics with me at all. She claims that she has reasons for hating President Bush but refuses to share those reasons. It's really a shame becaus eother than that she's a nice person and fun to be around. I see her about once a year and only under strictly guarded conversational circumstances. (she's in rural Wisconsin so she might be cancelled out, I don't know) Then I have a sister who works for a living. She is mostly non-political but I think she's a closet republican. (Suburb of Milwaukee)
Mom is non-political democrat. dad was a union steward for years. He's drank so much koolaid that he's brain dead. None of my family will really discuss politics as they don't like being buried by an avalanche of FACTs proving that they are wrong. I got saved, married a beautiful Christian woman (who's grown more beautiful and more conservative each year), moved down here to Indiana, and now move in a very Christian (hence conservative) circle of friends and acquaintances. Most of the people at work are Christian and conservative also. So I don't really have much need to go back up north. I do have a nephew (who is also a Christian) up north who is in your same situation. Besides his wife and his church family he's all alone. He'll call down here when he needs to talk to someone sane.
I figure that God will send someone to reach my family as they refuse to listen to me. I just keep praying for them and try to be nice when I see them or have to be around my brother.
We've got room for ya in TEXAS!
My first comments pointed to my personal self interest, since I thought "what parent wouldn't want to vote for policies that would benefit their own kid?" I told them Kerry wants to raise taxes, and I don't buy his false promise that he's only going to raise taxes on those making over 200k. In response to that, my parents said "well, you make a lot more than we do -- you can afford to pay higher taxes"! Then I said Kerry has no plan to fix Social Security, and it will be bankrupt by the time I retire at its current rate. To which they said "Bush is going to cut Social Security", to which I responded that's just DNC propaganda and completely false. I said the plan is to do a partial privatization, to which my parents responded there is no way to privatize without cutting benefits to existing retirees. I said that's not true -- the system currently runs at a net profit, and privatization would be gradually phased in only for younger taxpayers without affecting current promised benefits, but it's quite difficult to argue intelligent conservative viewpoints versus Democrat scare tactics. Finally, I said it was a matter of pay now or pay later, and it's just going to be a lot more expensive the longer we wait. That didn't bother them though -- they seem content to know that Social Security will last long enough for them (they are currently in their early 60's). I gave up, saying that Kerry's Social Security plan is "more of the same", keeping your head in the sand as long as possible.
My parent's economic counterpoint was Bush's deficits. I argued that Kerry's proposals would increase spending even more dramatically, and his proposed tax increases wouldn't be enough to cover it. They agreed that Kerry would also increase spending, but that it was irresponsible for Bush to cut taxes. But I also agreed that Bush's domestic spending record has been abysmal, and I'm hoping he becomes more conservative in his second term.
Next I moved on to the War on Terror. My parents brought up the standard "no WMD" line -- to which I responded that I think the weapons were moved (and gave lots of evidence to support that point), and it was worthwhile taking out Saddam in any case (giving more evidence of his brutal history). I pointed out that brutal regimes ONLY understand the threat of force, and taking out Saddam convinced Libya to abandon their WMD program, and if Bush gets reelected he will have much more bargaining power with Iran than Kerry. That shut my parents up on the WMD issue. I told them I believed Osama was either dead, incapacitated, or hiding in a hole cut off from the world (although this was before the recent video showed up--DOH). That pretty much settled that issue -- they couldn't debate me on the facts, except to say that Kerry would "stay the course" in Iraq (which I told them I doubted--he has a 30-year record suggesting otherwise). I also pointed out Kerry's disastrous foreign policy ideas (nukes for Iran and "global test").
I went to character next -- pointing out Kerry's flip-flops and lying. My parents both agreed that Kerry was an extremely poor candidate, and wish they had someone better to vote for, but they were voting Democrat anyway. So no traction there.
Next, my parents brought up abortion--this is apparently their real hot-button issue. I've never heard my parents say anything so forcefully, they were literally yelling at me -- "DO YOU WANT ABORTIONS TO BE ILLEGAL? DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE TO GET COAT-HANGER ABORTIONS IN BACK ALLEYS?". They brought up how Bush could end up appointing up to 4 justices in his second term, and that they would likely be pro-Life. I'm pro-choice myself (does that make me a bad conservative?), the best I could come up with was that Roe v. Wade was a case of illegal judicial activism and should be overturned anyway, regardless of your stand on abortion. Besides, the right to abortion isn't going to matter much if Iran gets nukes.
That was pretty much it -- my cell phone got cut off, I don't know where it would have went if that hadn't happened. I sent an email to my mom about Iran nukes, and she said that she would definitely consider that issue when voting. Although they are in a location where they do not need to worry about nuclear terror (a town of less than 2000 in the middle of Missouri is not a likely target, whereas I live in L.A.).
My parents do have some conservative viewpoints. My dad is against affirmative action, and believes in medical liability reform (of course he doesn't mind voting in a trial lawyer for VP). My dad also believes in individual responsibility, and parental responsibility for kids versus government. My mom was a stay-at-home mom and is a Christian. I don't know why they are so liberal, but I think it may have to do with growing up during the Vietnam War (my dad got a student deferment, and he told me he would have crippled himself by slamming his car door on his leg to avoid serving).
I've given up on any future attempts to bring up politics, my parents are apparently long set in their thinking, although I may send the occasional political column their way. Hopefully Missouri is not within 4 votes at the end! I may be able to convince my younger sister at some point, my wife convinced her younger brother to vote for Bush, woohoo!