Posted on 10/02/2004 3:48:27 PM PDT by Quix
OOOPS, LEFT OUT THE LINK:
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:PNPf_C0FOjoJ:www.kcm.org/wake_up_call.pdf+%22Oral+Roberts%22+Copeland&hl=en&client=REAL-tb
It's interesting to me, how many of the points in the interview/discussion have been touched on in this thread.
I POSTED IT AT POST #400.
I think it's a valid and very timely VISION.
Thanks tons for alerting me to it.
POST
#400
BUMP
ORAL ROBERTS
vision re a coming 'sign from God'
discussed with Richard Roberts and Kenneth Copeland.
There was also an interesting side note about a church in New York City which had a LOT of members who routinely worked in the WTC towers or walked through there on their way to work.
NOT ONE
of their members died in the 9/11 tragedy. The reasons were interesting. One heard the voice of God tell him to run--which he did, in the nick of time.
THE RELIGIOUS NAYSAYERS on this thread who declare essentially that Holy Spirit broke His scribe fingers and became speachless after John finished Revelation--one even saying prophecy ended at Christ's Resurrection!!!--
such naysayers would evidently have all died in WTC having been stubbornly resistent to hearing Holy Spirit speak into their lives in this era whether directly or through dreams or visions.
None are so blind as those who WILL NOT see.
-----------------------------
I’m thinking about a guy that’s a friend of ours, and yours, too, Dan Stratton, pastors right there on Wall Street. He had been teaching and preaching on the blood and hearing the voice of God and so forth. His staff commutes through the World Trade Center to come to work every day. Not a member of his church, not a member of his staff, nor any member of any of their families were touched by the Trade Center when it fell in, not one.
And they commute there. That’s where they were. And he said nearly all of them were late to work. Nearly all of them late to work! One guy started in the front door and he heard the voice of God say, “Run!” He didn’t know where or why. He just turned and took off down the street, before it of hit. He walked right through the middle of it without being touched.
If we’ll listen to the signs, we’ll be this Body of Christ, this body of power, this, this, this great beacon of light right in the middle of all of this that’s going on. And when the signs come and the noise hits and all of this, it’s going to be all over the world, in whatever form it takes where you are, you’ll be standing there ready, your congregation will be standing there ready, you’ll be the place where they run. And when they run there, they’re not going to hear some little two-bit social gospel and a bunch of political correctness.
They’re going to hear about Jesus and He’s coming soon. And the people are going to line up the altars of the churches and cry out to God in the middle of all this, and we’re going to see the greatest influx of souls that’s ever been in the history of —
I believe in private dreams from the Lord and the instances you have listed above are just that. There is no revelation to mankind as a whole in them. As I said, visions are something else altogether, and they are not individual's nightmares.
Eckleburg, Dad and I have done our job as scripture calls us to do. You didn't like it, but that's not our fault. We were careful to only post what the Lord has revealed in Scripture and there were none of our own feelings evident in condemning, what does the Lord call it? divinery.
JOCKO'S bookmark to know where to pick up later; read this far and had to stop:
Kenneth: This last New Year’s Eve. And so the last day of December, that afternoon, and the Lord talked to me all the way from that afternoon until about an hour before the service started that night. I wrote it down. He said, “The year of 2004 will be known as the year of fullness. By the close of 2004, all callings will come to fullness, apostles ministry, prophets ministry, evangelists ministry, pastors ministry, teaching ministries, that will obey me will come into full manifestation and the gifts of the Spirit will be manifested in fullness as they were when Jesus was on the earth.” ... He said, “There’s an emptiness in my church.” He said, “There is a weakness, a wimpness, like being a wimp.” Said, “There’s a spirit of weakness in the people who are trying to proclaim my gospel.” He said, “They are not feeling me on the inside of them. ...
Quix: THANK YOU for this post. You are doing a GREAT JOB warning those who are capable of being warned.
bump
I appreciate the tone and charity in this response I'm replying to. Thanks tons.
The poison and seemingly proud, haughty comments about the poster's efforts to get me banned are above in the thread. I think it was USNDADOF8 but may have been more than him, too.
I think Scriptural exchanges could have honorably been engaged in on another thread. That would have been "DOING UNTO OTHERS" as Jesus taught. When there's so much resistence to doing the honorable forum rules abiding thing AND also tons of such haughty hostility and poison ON TOP OF what I construe as very unBiblical stances--all in the act of hijacking--stealing a thread a brother started for a different purpose--it becomes quickly outrageous.
Perhaps I and some friends need to wait for you folks to start a thread and we'll return the 'favor.' I begin to doubt you'll get a clue any other way.
I'm blessed to read that you can imagine that there are God given personal dreams. It never really convincingly sounded so earlier in the thread. At least, not by the other two.
I still disagree in the sense that some dreams do seem to be for the whole Body of Christ, indeed for all mankind--whoever will tune into them and profit from them. God gives sooooo liberally and upbraids not. I think Oral Roberts' vision will turn out that way. I was prepared to be exceedingly skeptical because of some bias I have against him--which I guess I'll have to adjust. But, it rang true in my spirit. We shall see what God confirms. I expect the sign in the sky more or less exactly as Oral related it. Sounds like God. Feels like a God-plan in my spirit.
I don't know why you'd think it irrational for me to point out hostilities, repeated pushes of the abuse button and insistences that I be banned--repeatedly bragged about on this thread. And you three are essentially the only ones posting such messages. I don't actually recall a single other person doing so.
I don't think you are being honest about your group not posting feelings. Your feelings leaked out and were thrown out forcefully quite routinely.
The Scripture does NOT call dreams and visions birthed by Holy Spirit "divinery." In fact, doing so could easily be construed as blasphemy against Holy Spirit--something Father has very strong feelings about. Talk about needing to exercise caution!!!
I have also been as responsible, more or less, as I know how to be in this context to God and Scripture according to the understandings HE has led me to over my life.
I can give a good deal of grace to other believers about things over which reasonable people can differ. However, the RELIGIOUS SPIRIT/PHARISEE attitudes, tones, stances etc. are exceedingly hideous and deadly regardless of the particular denominatioal distinctives that are fronting for such. The Lord has built into me a fierce response to that evil. It's nothing personal.
May God guide each of us into the closest possible relationship with Him and deeper into HIS PASSION FOR HIS PRIORITIES.
Blessings,
Thanks Tons.
PTL.
Am humbled and honored to read you saying so.
May God's purposes be furthered by all such.
THANKS MUCH!
Well now, here is part of the problem. I can imagine all sorts of things, and by doing so and getting other people to believe my imaginings, I am cooking up a recipe for disaster. By posting the actual scripture, as you did, and as we did, the readers can see for themselves what the Lord says. Without scripture as a guide, all sorts of vain imaginings take root and that is never good. I think you can agree with that. The three of us take our passion for the Word (which you mistake for our own feelings) seriously, and we have a duty to instruct others. In spite of what you might think, none of us asked for this job and it isn't easy to do, but we are blessed to have it.
Ok, I have passed this thread by a few times, but now I guess I must say something. I am not a person who puts much stock into dreams usually except to say that I pay attention to what they make me feel while they are going on and take a clue from that as to what is really bothering me.
Having said that, however, since I was a child, I have had a few dreams that have either come true, or proved to be an answer to someones prayers.
I had a dream about the plane crashing into the Patomic 10 years before it did. I had a dream about a house that I was to visit in exact detail 6 years before it was built by someone I did not know at the time. I had a dream about my deceased grandfather telling me to "tell them all I am ok". When I wrote of this dream to my grandmother, she read my Christmas card at a gathering at which I was not present and said she had been praying for a sign that he was in heaven. I also had a dream that I would become pregnant and have trouble with the pregnancy and the eventually deliver a healthy baby boy with dark hair and dark eyes. (we had fertility problems for 8 years, lost two pregnancies and then 3 years ago gave birth to a healthy son, dark hair dark eyes, trouble with pregnancy, two dreams after I was pregnant with a voice saying It is ok and it is a boy).
Now, keeping in mind that my husband is currently stationed in Iraq, and I am very concerned about his safety, I recently had a dream, which had the same feeling of reality that all the others did, especially the ones when I was pregnant. I was in a huge hanger type building with a large number of soldiers and there was a missile attack or some type of bomb. I could hear and feel the missiles impacting the ground, I heard screams, people running, saw huge sections of the hanger being ripped apart. I can remember looking all over for my husband, but could not find him, although I had the feeling he was still alive. I also have a strong feeling about October 19th. Not sure why, but something in my mind keeps telling me that is important. I might be wrong, but I just wanted to mention this to you. I will pray for the safety of all very hard on that day.
God Bless,
The whole issue will be resolved on November 1. Pull up this thread then and we'll review it.
I can agree to a point about vain imaginings. What you construe as vain imaginings may not always be that, at all.
No, I took your EMOTIVELY EXPRESSIVE . . . aspects
ABOUT Scripture
as that--evidence of the/your emotional aspects about your constructions and interpretations on Scripture.
Such emotional aspects and the particular flavors and 'emotional DNA' about such things have become very telling things to me. I don't know how to describe that very well. I just know it in my bones.
In and of themselves, they'd be of no consequence. But over the decades, I've learned that they are red flags when certain criteria are abundantly met as has been the case on this thread. Perhaps I could put it this way--when say 70-90% of the red flags indicate RELIGIOUS SPIRIT, then I have to conclude, that a RELIGIOUIS SPIRIT is likely involved. I suppose we could call it, the DUCK CRITERIA. Too many factors indicate it's a duck. So, it must be a duck. At least, that's the BEST hypothesis--given the abundant evidence.
I can recognize pure and simple passion for The Word. I have a lot of that. And, I can say that you folks seem to have some of that.
But it's not pure and simple only that. Not by a long shot. And I would be dishonest, undiscerning, unScriptural and unloving to you, to let you think that I believed it was when it so clearly is not.
I take my PASSION FOR THE WORD rather seriously, too, BTW.
BLESS YOU FOR YOUR FAITHFULNESS TO SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCES.
Will pray for your husband.
And, you have motivated me to pray extra for our President on the 19th--and for our Republic.
God's best to you and yours--in spiritual intimacy with God, with each other; in provision; safety and His Joy unspeakable and full of His Glory.
THANKS ENORMOUSLY FOR YOUR SHARING.
That will only reflect on those dreams/visions referring to October.
We all see through a glass darkly.
Some are just beginning to receive and understand and handle well dreams and visions God gives them.
And even some old salts miss it occasionally.
Even a couple of Old Testament prophets missed it and were not stoned. No, I have mislaid the refs. I have a book with the refs in it but have not made it through it more than a few pages.
Ah.
USNDAD: See, once you open the door for extra-biblical revelations, then anything goes.
QX: NOT AT ALL! I Cor 14:29 gives us an excellent pattern for handling such matters. The local Body of Christ judges. Certainly part of that judgment is how well does a given prophetic input match up with the whole counsel of God in Scripture.
But Scripture is not likely to say in Psalms 119:20 whether to move to a new house; take a particular wife; home school the kids; become a missionary; change occupations; RUN out of the WTC IMMEDIATELY; . . . etc.
And, JESUS SAID: MY SHEEP KNOW MY VOICE.
Which COULD LOGICALLY BE CONSTRUED TO INDICATE that if one doesn't KNOW and isn't at least IN THE PROCESS OF LEARNING HOW to hear and obey HIS VOICE,
then perhaps that one is not HIS SHEEP.
Miraculous things birthed of God have never quit happening.
It's His nature.
They have withered out in this or that area of the world. They have become relatively infrequent in terms of weeks or months. But they have never quit happening.
A thorough enough reading of world and church history proves this in abundance.
I suppose it depends on one's definition of "apostle."
Some say the criteria is having seen Christ.
Paul saw Him on the Damascus road. Many others every century since then have seen Christ similarly.
Some say it's operating in the gifts and all 5 offices mentioned in Scripture: teacher, pastor, evangelist, prophet, apostle.
Some say it's planting churches internationally.
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