Basis of Christianity is bloodily sodden with hatred of the Jews (Leading Belfast journo on Passion)

The Belfast Telegraph ^ | 04 March 2004 | Eamonn McCann

[Joblie]

MEL GIBSON says that his film, The Passion of the Christ, is a faithful representation of the biblical story of Jesus' trial and execution. He also says the movie isn't anti-Semitic. He cannot be right on both counts.

The New Testament is, among other things, an anti-Semitic tract. It is the source of the anti-Semitism which has characterised Christianity for two millennia.

If the film isn't anti-Semitic, it's out of line with the Gospel. In face of complaints from US Jewish leaders, Gibson removed from the film's sub-titles - although not from the Aramaic sound-track - the response of the Jews to Pilate's hand-washing disavowal of blame for sending Jesus to be crucified: "His blood be upon us and our children."

But why? The quote is there in Matthew 27:25. Its meaning is clear and has been fulfilled in unspeakable ways down the ages.

Luke 23:28-29 gives the same point a more vicious twist, depicting Jesus telling weeping women he encounters on the Way of the Cross: "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me but for yourselves and your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, 'Blessed are the barren and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never gave suck!'"

Better for Jews that they'd never been born, then.

There's been no shortage of Christians ever since to ram this murderous message home to Jewish neighbours.

John's Gospel (8:44) has Jesus telling the Jews they are descended neither from God nor from Abraham but are children of the Devil.

The early Fathers of the Church took inspiration from the Bible as they preached hatred of the Jews.

In the works of Tertullian, Justin, John Chrysostom, etc., Jews are relentlessly libelled... the obscene Jew, the Satanic Jew, the murderer-of-God Jew, the whoremonger Jew, etc.

And so it continued. Pope after Pope, Council after Council, confirmed and codified the subhuman status of the Jews.

Every century is pock-marked by examples. (Council of Toledo, 694: Jews living in Spain declared slaves, possessions confiscated, all children removed from them at seven and prepared for marriage to Christians.)

Hitler didn't suck the idea of Jews wearing yellow badges out of his thumb. He took it from the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215.

The Nazi persecution can be seen as a practical expression of traditional Christian attitudes to Jews.

"From the beginning until the end of Hitler's rule, the bishops never tired of admonishing the faithful to accept his government," Guenter Lewy recalled in "The Catholic Church and Nazi Germany."

Individual Catholic clerics who opposed the Nazis' anti-Semitism were a tiny minority, totally unrepresentative.

Catholic apologists concede now that the Vatican and the German bishops should have given stronger, more courageous leadership.

But this is dodging the issue. One of the reasons they didn't is that, by and large, they agreed with the Nazis.

From its beginning, Protestantism was as bad. The editor of the Nazi hate-sheet "Der Sturmer," Julius Streich, cited Martin Luther, reasonably, in a plea of justification at Nuremberg.

In his disgusting treatise "On the Jews and their Lies" in 1543, Luther had called for the fire-bombing of synagogues, the demolition of Jewish homes, the silencing of rabbis, the banning of Jews from public places, the confiscation of Jewish property and the enslavement of "all strong young Jews and Jewesses."

Christian hymns provided the theme music for the Holocaust.

Even after the gates were flung open on the horrors of Auschwitz, Christian teachers, in Ireland as elsewhere, continued to instruct infants that the scattering of the Jews and the persecutions they endured were punishment for the killing of the Christ.

Argument over Gibson's blockbuster gore-fest diverts attention from what's important.

If the film fuels anti-Semitism, it's to be condemned, irrespective of its merits as a movie.

But let's not allow a satisfying controversy obscure the fact that the founding text of Christianity is bloodily sodden with hatred of Jews.

[TheDon]

RRRrrrrriiiiiigggghhhhttttt........ Are you one of those Jewish "leaders" who is inciting anti-semiticism among Christians?

[Cboldt]

Are you one of those Jewish "leaders" who is inciting anti-semiticism among Christians?

Nope. Honest, I'm not.

[Just mythoughts]

"However by leaving out Luther had just read the Babylonian Talmud and by not quoting from the Talmud speaks strongly to your agenda."

Every once in a while the Talmud gets a mention, now since I don't know much about Luther and someone else connects what Luther pens to the Babylonian Talmud, would you please fill in the dots.

What is so secretive about what the Babylonian Talmud says?

[Timmy]

"In the works of Tertullian, Justin, John Chrysostom, etc., Jews are relentlessly libelled... the obscene Jew, the Satanic Jew, the murderer-of-God Jew, the whoremonger Jew, etc."

True.

I've read most of Tertullian and Justin. They wrote during times of severe persecution of Christians. I do not remember them "relentlessly" libelling the Jews, outside of the leaders who actually pushed the killing of Jesus (quoting the Gospels). If it's more than that, kindly provide some examples. Thanks.

[cupcakes]

I assert that if Christianity and Christians were as terrible as liberals make it/them out to be, they would not be writing about out of fear of repercussions. Just look at a real anti-Semitic religion like Islam and you won't hear a peep from the same folks attacking Christianity as anti-Semitic. If anything, liberals are cowards through and through and they prove it by picking on a religion that in this day and age can be counted on to turn the other cheek while ignoring the current religion of oppression and that is the antithesis of freedom.

[Just mythoughts]

"However by leaving out Luther had just read the Babylonian Talmud and by not quoting from the Talmud speaks strongly to your agenda."


What no quick response? No change of subject, would you please answer the question about what made Luther pen what he penned because of the Babylonian Talmud?

[cupcakes]

Yeah, but did he counter that with the fact that all American Lutheran synods do not align themselves with Martin Luther on this issue. It seems that not mentioning that means that this author hopes that people who are non-Christians or nominal Christians reading his garbage peice will believe that at least Lutheran Christians are anti-Semitic and that is complete hogwash in the US anyway.

[joesnuffy]

Actually the only negative reaction to this movie has been from professional "pseudo" Jews...or JINOS if you will.....

Who are conviently Jews when its time to scream anti semetism & making sure little ole ladies and holocaust survivors down in Broward County Florida...are scared half to death with horror stories & their freshly created "Anti Semite Born Again Christian monster"...prodding their own elderly to open up their wallets to their so Jewish protectors...

The protection racket is probably the oldest hustle in the world...its too bad that these poor folks.. trust these parasites more than then they ever will...their true allies ...Evangelical Christians...

Who have been brought even closer to their God and Israel...thanks to Mel Gibson's movie "The Passion of the Christ"

In the movie you wont see Jewish hands nailing Christ to his cross...but you will see the hands of Mel Gibson...Mr. Gibson refused to appear in his own movie...other than to show his own hands nailing Jesus to the cross...as he states that it was HE Mel Gibson and his sins that nailed The Christ to the cross.....

In the words of Pastor Greg Laurie... "It was not nails that kept Jesus Christ on the cross...it was love"

You can not nail God to any cross he doesn't want you to....or allow you to

[cupcakes]

The Talmud says some pretty intolerant and disgusting things about Gentiles and it also slanders the virgin Mary and Jesus. To Luther this had to be heresy of the highest order. After defending Jews, he was probably disgusted that this peice specifically addressing Christianity and Christ himself was a part of the Jewish belief system. It was a wake up call, just like reading portions of the Hadith and Koran was a wake up call for many Americans. I imagine it was a mixture of feeling betrayed and disgusted that set him off, but like someone else said, that was the 1500's for both Jews and Christians, this is 2004 and we live in a different world where one would think the Jew and the Christian could agree that their biggest threat is not each other. The point though is that the writer of the article left out the fire that lit Martin Luther at the time. He ignored the blatent anti-Christian bigotry of THAT TIME that was permeating Jewish literature and law.
Free, if I butchered this is some way, please step in. Thanks

[Just mythoughts]

"The Talmud says some pretty intolerant and disgusting things about Gentiles and it also slanders the virgin Mary and Jesus. To Luther this had to be heresy of the highest order. After defending Jews, he was probably disgusted that this peice specifically addressing Christianity and Christ himself was a part of the Jewish belief system."


Oh really, then that explains the silence about the Babylonian Talmud. So just posting Luther's words were done with the intent to inflame and not to inform.

Looks like I need to do some checking into the Babylonian Talmud to get a better understanding about just what is going on here. WOW the things one learns on FR!

Since Mel's movie I have gotten a real education about "religions" and what motivates people.

What exactly does the Babylonian Talmud say about Christ and Mary? Given what has been posted about Luther seems appropriate we have that information posted.

[missyme]

Excuse me,
I have no doubt that evil people have dressed in the cloth of the Christian Faith and perpetuated Anti-Semitism in the world...But there not "Christians" it's called Wolves in Sheeps Clothing"....Unless Christ taught Anti-semitism
which I doubt since he was a Jew himself, then the Christian message is not Anti-semetic..What the heck is so hard about understanding this message???????????

Welcome to the world my friend..Evil exsists

[DestroytheDemocrats]

"The point though is that the writer of the article left out the fire that lit Martin Luther at the time."

It was newspaper column not a term paper. The Lutheran Church has apologied to the Jews for the antisemitism of Luther and they never made excuses. It was a most gracious apology. They never said, "the Talmud made him do it."

[DestroytheDemocrats]

"Would you please answer the question about what made Luther pen what he penned because of the Babylonian Talmud?"

The Talmud made him do it.

[DestroytheDemocrats]

"The Talmud says some pretty intolerant and disgusting things about Gentiles and it also slanders the virgin Mary and Jesus."

Just make sure you are considering the words from the actual Talmud. There are of fradulent renditions that have inflammatory quotes that are totally made up by antisemites.

[DestroytheDemocrats]

"The Talmud says some pretty intolerant and disgusting things about Gentiles and it also slanders the virgin Mary and Jesus."

What about this?

"In 1236 a Jewish apostate, Nicholas Donin, submitted a memorandum to Pope *Gregory IX listing 35 charges against the Talmud. These included allegations that contained blasphemies of Jesus and Mary, attacks on the Church, pronouncements hostile to non-Jews, and foolish and revolting stories which is often still today quoted by anti-Semites as truth. Even some Jews have made that same mistake. The apostate version is that the Jews had elevated Oral Law to the level of divinely inspired Scripture, and this impeded the possibility of Jewish conversion to Christianity. In 1239 Gregory IX ordered ecclesiastics in France to confiscate Jewish books (March 3, 1240), and for them to be burned at the stake. Similar instructions were conveyed to the kings of France, England, Spain, and an inquisitorial committee condemned the Talmud two years later. In June 1242, 24 wagon loads of books totaling thousands of volumes were handed over to the book executioner for public burning."

See what you think. The information came from this website: http://www.pnews.org/art/1art/TALMUD.shtml

[Piranha]

George Washington’s 1790 Letter To Touro Synagogue

During a visit to Newport, R.I., in 1790, a year before the Bill of Rights was ratified, President George Washington received a letter from Moses Sexias, warden of the Touro Synagogue, seeking assurance of religious freedom for Jews. President Washington gave an unequivocal guarantee, returning a letter stating that the new government would “give to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance.”

Below is the transcript of each letter. Original spelling, punctuation and capitalization have been retained.

The letter from Moses Seixas to President George Washington To the President of the United States of America.

Sir:

Permit the children of the stock of Abraham to approach you with the most cordial affection and esteem for your person and merits ~~ and to join with our fellow citizens in welcoming you to NewPort.

With pleasure we reflect on those days ~~ those days of difficulty, and danger, when the God of Israel, who delivered David from the peril of the sword, ~~ shielded Your head in the day of battle: ~~ and we rejoice to think, that the same Spirit, who rested in the Bosom of the greatly beloved Daniel enabling him to preside over the Provinces of the Babylonish Empire, rests and ever will rest, upon you, enabling you to discharge the arduous duties of Chief Magistrate in these States.

Deprived as we heretofore have been of the invaluable rights of free Citizens, we now with a deep sense of gratitude to the Almighty disposer of all events behold a Government, erected by the Majesty of the People ~~ a Government, which to bigotry gives no sanction, to persecution no assistance ~~ but generously affording to all Liberty of conscience, and immunities of Citizenship: ~~ deeming every one, of whatever Nation, tongue, or language equal parts of the great governmental Machine: ~~ This so ample and extensive Federal Union whose basis is Philanthropy, Mutual confidence and Public Virtue, we cannot but acknowledge to be the work of the Great God, who ruleth in the Armies of Heaven, and among the Inhabitants of the Earth, doing whatever seemeth him good.

For all these Blessings of civil and religious liberty which we enjoy under an equal benign administration, we desire to send up our thanks to the Ancient of Days, the great preserver of Men ~~beseeching him, that the Angel who conducted our forefathers through the wilderness into the promised Land, may graciously conduct you through all the difficulties and dangers of this mortal life: ~~ And, when, like Joshua full of days and full of honour, you are gathered to your Fathers, may you be admitted into the Heavenly Paradise to partake of the water of life, and the tree of immortality.

Done and Signed by order of the Hebrew Congregation in NewPort, Rhode Island August 17th 1790. Moses Seixas, Warden

The letter from George Washington in response to Moses Seixas

To the Hebrew Congregation in Newport Rhode Island.

Gentleman.

While I receive, with much satisfaction, your Address replete with expressions of affection and esteem; I rejoice in the opportunity of assuring you, that I shall always retain a grateful remembrance of the cordial welcome I experienced in my visit to Newport, from all classes of Citizens.

The reflection on the days of difficulty and danger which are past is rendered the more sweet, from a consciousness that they are succeeded by days of uncommon prosperity and security.

If we have wisdom to make the best use of the advantages with which we are now favored, we cannot fail, under the just administration of a good Government, to become a great and happy people. The Citizens of the United States of America have a right to applaud themselves for having given to mankind examples of an enlarged and liberal policy: a policy worthy of imitation.

All possess alike liberty of conscience and immunities of citizenship. It is now no more that toleration is spoken of, as if it was by the indulgence of once class of people, that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent national gifts.

For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support. It would be inconsistent with the frankness of my character not to avow that I am pleased with your favorable opinion of my Administration, and fervent wishes for my felicity.

May the children of the Stock of Abraham, who dwell in this land, continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other Inhabitants; while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and figtree, and there shall be none to make him afraid. May the father of all mercies scatter light and not darkness in our paths, and make us all in our several vocations useful here, and in his own due time and way everlastingly happy.

G. Washington

[Commie Basher]

This is the Belfast Telegraph? Is this an Orange newspaper with an ax to grind against "the Papists."

[SJackson]

"The Talmud says some pretty intolerant and disgusting things about Gentiles and it also slanders the virgin Mary and Jesus. To Luther this had to be heresy of the highest order. After defending Jews, he was probably disgusted that this peice specifically addressing Christianity and Christ himself was a part of the Jewish belief system."

I’ll just borrow another posters post, it will get you to the interpretations you’re looking for. Snappy quotes too, feel free to bring them back with you.

Oh, and about “What about this?”, the slaughter of Jews and desecration of their places of worship was common during the middle ages, and yes, based on the same crap you’re going to bring back here from Stormfront. Disputation’s (that’s what you’re talking about, I’m sure you knew that) were common till the expulsions of the 14th and 15th century. The best known likely at the Court of King James (Spain). The Stormfront translation didn’t prevail, but scrolls were burned anyway, and the Jewish representative. Nachmanides expelled to Turkey.

......................

One of the more prominent sources of this sort of "Talmudic scholarship" is Michael A. Hoffman II, whose website Campaign for Radical Truth in History, bills itself as "Your source for suppressed information on Judaism's strange gods, secret societies and psychological warfare and radical history."

His "definitive work" on the Talmud, The Truth About the Talmud, has been used as a source for other "Talmudic scholars" associated with white supremacy groups like Aryans Nations and various neo-Nazi, anti-Jewish social clubs, who distribute his and other works intended to "expose the Jewish conspiracy".

----, instead of telling you his source directly, suggests searching the Internet. On that point, I agree. You probably should have a better idea of where he is getting his information, and thus better understand why he is injecting it into this thread.

I encourage anyone following this little subtopic of the thread to see for themselves what I am talking about. A Google search of the terms "talmud truth jesus" is a good starting point.

For some specific links demonstrating what I am talking about, see the following:

Aryan Nations: Literature

Resistance Records: Hidden Facts

Stormfront.Org: The Truth about the Talmud

These are just the barest sampling, as even a casual search will reveal.

You'll notice ----- has, so far, not disputed what I posted above. I doubt it's due to an oversight, but acknowledge the possibility (it's a busy thread) and urge him to prove me wrong -- I would very much prefer to be wrong about this, believe me.

The whole subject turns my stomach, but I refuse to ignore it, because it's real, these people are real, their websites are real, and they are spreading their "truth" as I write this, and as you read this, and it is right here in this thread.

As painful history has demonstrated time and again, when people tell you who they are, it's best to listen to them.

[Sloth]

The quote is there in Matthew 27:25. Its meaning is clear

Yeah, its meaning is clear. Somebody was mouthing off. That has nothing to do with anti-Semitism.

[Just mythoughts]

You sure are concerned about what other people say about the Talmud or (Babylonian Talmud), I have not gotten myself a Talmud, or Babylonian Talmud yet. I have made no such claims about what the Talmud says or does not say.

I don't even know when the Talmud came to be penned on paper. You seeee I thought that Jews laid claim to the Torah. Well what an education I have been given.

Now you have spent your time in pegging those who make claims about what the Talmud says, while I have spent my time studying the whole Bible.

Now Ezra and Nehemiah give an interesting picture of who came out of Babylon to rebuild that temple.