The FR Range: Weekly Thread for Feb. 25th, 2004

FR | Wednesday, February 25, 2004 | Longcut and risk

[risk]

It's about time for another post.

[risk]

Time for another ping? Not sure chat was the best place for this. What's going on with S.659, Feinstein's rider? Will the marriage amendment discussion help to remind people what the Constitution means? Any news about other things? Who didn't go out shooting last week!

[Molly Pitcher]

Good morning risk. Well I went to the range Monday, and as usual, except for the 2 ladies working there, I was the only female in the store, on the range.

Somewhere I saw a good story, and will find it to link here later...

[snippy_about_it]

Good morning risk. I see "Old Hunter" looks safe now from "Old Bess". LOL.

I haven't been to the range for over a year. :-(

As for the marriage amendment I haven't even heard it mentioned among my co-workers, they probably don't have a clue. I'll have to ask for some opinions among the sheeple to get an idea. Good project. :-)

[Sam Cree]

Thanks for the ping.

I like the Old Bess. It would be fun to own something like her.

I have a mind to put together a couple flintlock or caplock pistols for my (grown) kids for next Christmas.

Does anyone recommend a particular kit?

On other grounds, I was disappointed to see more Republican politicians preparing to vote for continuation of the assault weapons bans. Jerks.

[Sam Cree]

"As for the marriage amendment I haven't even heard it mentioned among my co-workers, they probably don't have a clue"

There was some discussion about it last night at my fishing club. I'd say there was a slight majority against it, mostly on the grounds that it's up to the states.

I personally tend to agree with that. I'm not ready to admit to myself that our nation is so changed from our founders' vision that we conservatives should abandon that vision too, and fight issues on an arbitrary basis instead of within what was supposed to have been the original framework, separation of powers, etc.

Probably I am delusional, though.

[risk]

Well I went to the range Monday, and as usual, except for the 2 ladies working there, I was the only female in the store, on the range.

Super! I see you're earning your name here in more ways than one.

[risk]

I think you're making some good points. On the other hand, I'm getting tired of being painted as a bigot for wanting to stop national-level same sex marriages. Can you imaging people immigrating on the basis of such relationships? I really didn't trouble myself over this matter until I thought about that. Then I thought about the divorce proceedings. Can you imagine how officer O'Leary is going to feel as the Balif? Can you imagine serving on a jury involving a child custody dispute -- from a test tube baby -- arising from a divorce proceding? These things make us want to get up and start passing out the petitions.

[yarddog]

OK, here is a request for advice.

I was in a pawn shop last week and noticed a Remington 742 in the rack. The owner said he would take $200 for it. Now this gun looked to be in good shape except someone had spray painted it green/brown in some sort attempt to camoflage it. They had also replaced the wood with synthetic material.

I asked the dealer about it and he said he had sent it to a gunsmith because it jammed. He had replaced the extractor.

The dealer said the low price was due to it being a 742 as they were known to be trouble prone. He did say it was working perfectly now. I have owned three 742, model 4, and 74 rifles and never had any problems but got to wondering. Are these rifles really that bad?

I think I am going to buy it but would like to hear a few more people's experience first.

[Molly Pitcher]

C-SPAN II covers Assault Weapons ban renewal debate today

[risk]

Haiti Rebels: Aristide Made Error on Guns

Interesting and thought-provoking situation in Haiti. What could our founding fathers have had in mind? A sample:

George Washington: "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them [guns] by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference [crime]. When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." (Address to 1st session of Congress)

Where are men of this character in our high offices today?

[Sam Cree]

Just thinking about such things as the actual "consumation" of a gay marriage is reasonably nauseating.

I read a comment on this forum yesterday pointing out that there is nothing to prevent anyone, gay or otherwise, from legally binding themselves together in any way they want right now, a good point, IMO. I don't have a problem with it.

But gays now want the *title,* they want to call themselves *married,* a legal contract isn't enough for them. I think that may imply a sacrament, which is just plain goofy, not to mention sacreligious.

I'm not a religious person, but cannot help worrying about these things. After all, I place extreme value on my own marriage.

I don't see how a church can consecrate a gay marriage and still maintain religious credibility, so such a thing is up to civil authority, I guess. Such things are a reflection of societal mores, I think; I wonder how much success politicians could have in changing our mores on this issue.

[snippy_about_it]

I'd say there was a slight majority against it, mostly on the grounds that it's up to the states.

That would work if we would return to states rights but having it already disintigrated, what do you do?

Part of the dilema here as I see it is that there are too many laws that prohibit "states rights". If an amendment were adopted you'd have your lawsuits to the Federal courts, regardless.

Laws, it's all about lawyers and money and we've gone so far away from the Constituion I'm not sure if anything would work, an amendment or just state laws.

It's sad to think there is no turning back, we've grown too much and too many people have come to live here that don't "hold our truths to be self-evident", that there is probably no turning back as much as we'd like to think there is.

Geez, that's sounds depressing. I think I'll stop.

[snippy_about_it]

Where are men of this character in our high offices today?

Between this and the gay marriage issue you already have me riled up this morning. Would that we could still tar and feather our politicians and drag them out of town. We vote and we try to put the most conservative person in office and that is too often a stretch.

As for Haiti, I'm for letting them have at it, they do every few years anyway. I don't want us to get involved, let them battle it out for themselves, armed as they are.

Now I'm fired up and late for an appointment.

This is going to be an interesting weekly thread! Thanks for the ping.

[Sam Cree]

"It's sad to think there is no turning back, we've grown too much and too many people have come to live here that don't "hold our truths to be self-evident", that there is probably no turning back as much as we'd like to think there is."

I don't doubt you are right. If so, we should fight issue by issue with no thought to the framework. Only thing is, without the framework and the "rule of law," our freedom is lost.

I keep thinking that it already is lost, and that the momentum of tradition is all that provides us with what freedom we still have.

Although I do still see us as quite "free," I wonder if enough has changed, and enough laws are in placce, that under the "right" leader, we could suddenly find everything reversed very quickly.

[risk]

Be of strong courage. Our ancestors stared down hordes of Indians, floods, earthquakes, fires, a massive Civil War, and inter-state rivalries -- all before the 20th century. We're going to slow down this crazy immigration so that those who're living here now can appreciate what we have. Then things will settle down.

And we're going to keep our guns.

[Sam Cree]

There is literature out there asserting that the Washington quote is not real.

[Shooter 2.5]

659 is a dead bill. It's been replaced by 1805. It will be debated at 9:30 according to the schedule which is in about 14 minutes. My understanding is there are still no amendments or riders on the bill. Frist made a motion to make sure it's a clean bill but I don't know if that was successful or not.

I went plinking Sunday with a Para .45 and a Smith .22. I was throwing wooden blocks out as far as I could and shooting them. Unfortunately, there was a big gunshow that weekend and there were about 40 people at the lease. After awhile some of the machinegunners liked my targets and started to shoot at them. It became so ridiculous that I would throw out about four blocks just so I could shoot at one. This problem happened a lot with my partner and I thought he was being overly sensitive. Since it was happening to me, he was just standing there with a big smile on his face.

[risk]

There is literature out there asserting that the Washington quote is not real.

Thank you for pointing that out, Sam! I should have wondered about his use of percentages. I don't recall seeing a lot of those in the 18th century writing.

[yarddog]

Other shooters were shooting at your targets?

I guess even we outdoorsmen and women have our share of jerks.