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To: Quix
My first comment is that I notice you speak in lists, strings, groups of examples.

Second, let me refresh my mind as to our original debate. It is true in your exhaustive study of the scriptures and knowledge of God that you see no reason not to believe in ET's and that you find fault with anyone that believes himself to know the Lord and disagree?

830 posted on 02/16/2004 8:54:38 AM PST by biblewonk (I must try to answer all bible questions.)
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To: All
Many of us have had no choice in the matter!

If an ET is kicking you in the (deleted) and sticking his cold probe up your (not mentioned), what choice do you have to not believe in him?

Post above seems to say that somehow we WANT to believe in these things, and that like Santa Claus or the tooth fairy, one has a choice of whether or not to believe.

When Squanto was abducted by the unknown English captain and taken to Gravesend, England, and returned 3 or 5 years later to the New England coast, I can imagine the scoffing he took from his fellow Indians... What, BELIEVE in Englishmen? BELIEVE in England, or Europe? Claiming to have seen a FLOATING HOUSE? Brave smoke wrong leaves in pipe!

But He was Right and They were Wrong! And his unusual "beliefs" were not "beliefs" at ALL, but KNOWINGS. He had been where they had not. He had had no choice but to see the world he saw. The same is true of myself and others here.
831 posted on 02/16/2004 9:03:02 AM PST by Chris Talk (What Earth now is, Mars once was. What Mars now is, Earth will become.)
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To: biblewonk; Chris Talk
This part:

and that you find fault with anyone that believes himself to know the Lord and disagree?

is not true.

I get weary, wary and sometimes overly . . . annoyed with what SOUNDS, FEELS, SEEMS, APPEARS to be a certain kind of rigid closed mindedness that is based much more to totally on emotional, psychological, sociological factors instead of on the Solid Word of God.

Life is soooooooo incredibly complex. Even Biblical, genuine Christianity is incredibly complex in practice in many cases. I think the basic principles are simple. But living them out requires constant dialogue with Holy Spirit to get it anywhere near right. IMHO.

And I have learned the hard way, the very hard way, that MOST, if not all, tidy little personal boxed Christianity is much closer to the pharisee sorts of things Jesus was most punitive toward than near any kind of viable Godliness. And I have been there and done that in spades and still have to be watchful about myself over such.

I also am 100% convinced that tons of what goes for even modern Pentecostal/Charismatic Christianity is fossilized man's doctrine stuff at least somewhat deadly to the Spirit and LIFE OF CHRIST manifested daily in individual lives AS HE DESIRES.

The SCRIPTURES declare that THE LETTER OF THE LAW KILLS and THE SPIRIT BRINGS LIFE, LIBERTY.

I have just found that abundantly and persistently so. And that relatively few Christians seem to realize which side of that--that they are on--on any given day or issue. Again. I've been there, done that in spades and still have to guard against it.

I also KNOW DEEPLY IN MY BONE MARROW that GOD REALLY IS GOING TO SHAKE ALL THAT CAN BE SHAKEN. Some believe serious shaking will begin this year along with dramatic miracles. If the Taipei church thing is any clue--I believe such will be this year. God is thoroughly fed up with the sickness in His Body. HE WILL HAVE A SPOTLESS BRIDE and only HE can clean us up suitable for such. But we have to cooperate as best we can.

Man has a virtually obsessive natural, fleshy tendency to take even solid doctrine and build a fossilized structure--thought/philosophical and organizational structure--which is almost immediately deadly. In my experience, any Christian group older than about a year and a half quickly begins to be convinced that THEY HAVE A FIRM, CLEAR, RIGID, LOFTY, HOLY CORNER ON TRUTH AND SPIRITUAL REALITY which everyone else will suffer greatly for not having.

Freud's old IN-GROUP/OUT-GROUP STUFF wherein he declared that even a religion of love would be unloving to those not members of it. We have sadly been proving him too right for centuries. God is fed up with that.

Denominations have been somewhat useful in articulating specific corners of neglected truth in many cases. But mostly God is horrified and fed up with the satanic divisions within Christianity.

That won't mean a homoginization to the lowest common denominator. I don't know how He will do it. I just know the walls are coming down for those who truly Love Jesus and want a relationship with The Father. I know that in some mission field areas I labored in, loving the sinner into the Kingdom was much more important than doctrinal details on relatively petty issues.

People are going to hell in handbaskets and by the train fulls. Pissing in the wind and getting into petty pissing contests over minor issues will not cut it in terms of God's priorities.

Unity of heart and purpose in the brotherhood of Christ's Blood before The Cross led of His Spirit will be sufficient. Getting fussed up about something God is not calling us to make a stand on will not be tolerated in the times ahead.

I don't know how to talk about this better. Words quickly become inadequate at some point.

BTW, Chris, have you had any impressions or thoughts on any of this aspect of reality?

836 posted on 02/16/2004 9:22:23 AM PST by Quix (Choose this day whom U will serve: Shrillery & demonic goons or The King of Kings and Lord of Lords)
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