When UFOs Arrive

www.popularmechanics.com ^ | February 2004 | BY JIM WILSON

[Chris Talk]

Needless to say, I am sure the Feds know all about tunneldom, and the cages, the vats, the breeding programs, the abductions, the imprisoned ones who will never see the light of day...

They know far more than you or I would ever know, or WANT to know, if we met a hundred escapees like this one.
They have allowed it and co-operated with it, though I suppose a case could be made that they had no choice, so might as well milk the aliens for technology, since they were going to do what they were going to do, anyway.

I do not think there is anything NEW about this. The aliens may be the truth behind rumors of fairies, elves, dwarves, trolls [not INTERNET trolls, of course] --sprites, leprechauns, aluxes, duendes, ...Hundreds of words.

Why is it, that if even our Indo European tongue is traced back to its roots when it had just a thousand or so words, we find that these words describing intelligent but non-human beings are among the very OLDEST words in the lexicon. Why would our primitive forbears have made up all these words for something they had never seen or had to deal with?

We now know that the religious and truly moral are not often taken, and that the beings dwell deep in dark cavities of Earth [Ps 74:20'...

So be good children, now, or the gobble-uns will GET you, if you don't watch OUT!

[Chris Talk]

The "Sons of God" who came in unto the daughters of men, taking advantage of them because they were fair to look upon...hardly seem angelic, or even good HUMANS, for that matter.

Clearly, the human "daughters of earthlings" [batot h'adam] are being contrasted with some other race that is not of earthly origin, who are Nephilim ["those who descended, those who came down"] which the Bible sometimes translates as "giants."

[realpatriot71]

About the boy who was in the underground cages--

Honestly, I do not doubt this story. It is quite apparent to anyone who spends enough time on the subject that something is happening to people. The next question in my mind is who do people, believers in the God of Bible, place this within the proper context, considering many factors such as Biblical translation, history, theology.

The best lies are 99% truth, yes? I think that jumping on the "alien bandwagon" is too hasty considering how the Devil, the god of this world, could use such a ploy to fool believers.

[Quix]

I've had relatively littel to do with my being a "bird of rare plumage" in spite of my mother's protestations.

God has made clear a lot of different times in a lot of different ways that

HE MADE ME EXCEEDINGLY UNIQUE FOR HIS PURPOSES

and that I'd best just accept it and get on with His program for me.

Once he told me through a dear sister:

"Rejoice not in the fact that I made you very different. Rejoice in my capacity TO HOLD YOU IN A HARD PLACE."

Boy has that been the case--been held very firmly in a long list of hard places regardless of what I did or didn't do.

But, HE DOES ALL THINGS WELL whether I think, feel or can see so at the time, or not.

I don't doubt that my comments are askew from what you are used to.

However, I've had abundant experience with those who respond as you do.

I get weary with folks who get deluded into majoring in minors and minoring in majors spiritually.

LOVING GOD WHOLLY, NEIGHBOR AS SELF AND DOING UNTO OTHERS under the Lordship of Jesus The Christ by the grace and enabling and direction of His Holy Spirit . . . those are my priorities.

I deeply cherish the Word--the written text. But He meant it when HE said MY SHEEP KNOW MY *VOICE*.

The coming dreadful times will require His written Word to be hidden deeply in our hearts and minds AND THAT WE FOLLOW HIS STILL SMALL VOICE CAREFULLY AND INTENTLY. People's lives here and eternally will depend on it.

I feel/suspect that you are mostly an earnest believer making your own spiritual walk as best as you can see fit. And I have a lot of respect for and want to support that.

I have increasingly less patience for any attitude, stance, belief, habit, practice which comes across as much more RELIGIOUS in a kind of rigid, rote, knee jerk, mindless, custom, tradition, man's doctrine, private interpretation etc. way. Jesus did not have any patience for such in HIS dusty pathed days and I have found such to be deadly in my life and era.

I'm dismayed to see that the best churches here are plagued with such mentalities, habits, customs. I KNOW God IS going to shake all such up. But the process will be painful. We'd do much better to cleanse ourselves and our churches of such used Kotex, as Scripture calls such, at our earliest opportunities ahead of THE LORD'S SHAKING.

It may surprise you to know that a big percentage of your stances, attitudes, tone, style and religious statements etc. were part and parcel of my very strident presentation of myself and my flavor of Christianity for probably the first 25-35 years of my life.

And, we are not the first. ST Paul and Peter thought they had the religious realities all mapped out very well. Paul found out differently on the Damascus road and later in the wilderness.

It appears that you have not been stripped to the bone marrow--at all, much less repeatedly--such that you surrendered all that you were, all that you knew, all that you had rather wholesale. And, patiently or helplessly waited for God to build you back more to His more preferred pattern and structure. One doesn't survive such a process without major change if one is at all alive and the least bit attentive.

Certainly one's flesh driven pet doctrines don't survive no matter how Biblical they may seem, appear or feel.

I don't know how to explain all that. I have virtually no hope that you will understand it if you truly have not been through such a process. If one has been through such a process, usually, little to no explanation is needed.

Anyway--dialogue is good. Happy for that.

[Chris Talk]

Oh BTW it is my understanding that as few as 400 persons per year are abducted into the cages and vats underground, mostly petite, blond young women from some 15 to 24, usually from the North or West, southerners not often.

I am not saying she IS down there, but the North Dakota case this winter is SO, SOooo, typical. Pretty little secular blond Nordic from way up north disappears for no reason, no body ever found. What is the poor girl's name, Sjojin or something?

[Quix]

VERY WELL SAID.

In this field, when one spits out the bones, often, there's very little left. And discerning valid puzzle pieces from wholesale disinformation, ignorance, stupid bias, lies from the pit etc. . . . not small task indeed.

I understand very well the important point you make.

[Chris Talk]

Yeah, stripped to the marrow, not once but several times. I can relate to THAT...

Good post. I could practically have written it, but am less introspective maybe than you.

[Quix]

Quite understandable.

You are a better man than I. I am so intensely curious about so many things. Especially in this subject area.

But, I have learned to be more patient to some degree, and to even accept not knowing a LOT more than I used to.

[Quix]

Astute observations, as usual.

[biblewonk]

My first comment is that I notice you speak in lists, strings, groups of examples.

Second, let me refresh my mind as to our original debate. It is true in your exhaustive study of the scriptures and knowledge of God that you see no reason not to believe in ET's and that you find fault with anyone that believes himself to know the Lord and disagree?

[Chris Talk]

Many of us have had no choice in the matter!

If an ET is kicking you in the (deleted) and sticking his cold probe up your (not mentioned), what choice do you have to not believe in him?

Post above seems to say that somehow we WANT to believe in these things, and that like Santa Claus or the tooth fairy, one has a choice of whether or not to believe.

When Squanto was abducted by the unknown English captain and taken to Gravesend, England, and returned 3 or 5 years later to the New England coast, I can imagine the scoffing he took from his fellow Indians... What, BELIEVE in Englishmen? BELIEVE in England, or Europe? Claiming to have seen a FLOATING HOUSE? Brave smoke wrong leaves in pipe!

But He was Right and They were Wrong! And his unusual "beliefs" were not "beliefs" at ALL, but KNOWINGS. He had been where they had not. He had had no choice but to see the world he saw. The same is true of myself and others here.

[Quix]

The old EVERYTHING UFO/ET related is 100% totally and only demons EXPLANATION just ceased to fit a long time ago.

There's too much technology and other stuff involved. SOME UFO 'craft' MAY be demons materializing to appear as craft. And SOME craft may be some sort of alive something. But it is very difficult to believe that all of them are.

I don't have any difficulty at all believing that demons/fallen angels are ET's, in cahoots with ET's filling bioengineered ET bodies--all or any combination of the above. And I don't think laymen at our level of understanding with what facts, pseudo facts, clues, etc. we think we have available . . . I don't think we have near enough data to conclusively assert anything about such very emphatically.

And, I believe Scripture means it when it says ALL CREATION GROANS EXPECTANTLY, WAITING EAGERLY FOR THE MANIFESTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD. ALL CREATION has been burdened with sin more than we are likely to conceive of well. Scripture is tooooo cryptic about that for us to go building castles of doctrine on it. But it is easy for me to construe it as covering ALL CREATION.

I don't have any trouble at all construing that as referring, in part, to countless other planets, races, critters in need of the full measure of redemption and salvation bought on The Cross.

For one, sometimes God can spend even people seemingly like water. But for there to be NO other inhabited planets etc. would seem like an uncharacteristic wastefulness of space on God's part.

And, He seems to be thoroughly . . . given to RELATIONSHIP with intelligent creatures made to some degree in His image. AND HE SEEMS TO THOROUGHLY ENJOY VARIETY AND DIVERSITY. That also seems to fit.

[Quix]

NO WONDER I feel such a kinship with you in my spirit!

Didn't think it was all the UFO interest thing.

[Chris Talk]

Yeah, that is a good one. Castles of doctrine built on almost no text at all.

I have said that many of my "religious" critics

(a) Just have not been where I have BEEN!

(b) Are belaboring me with doctrines with either little or NO scriptural foundation, are really just ideas they have held since childhood, but not really in fact Christian doctrine at all, much less foundational or important.

(c) Or what you said, mountains of doctrine based on a molehill of Scripture.

[realpatriot71]

hardly seem angelic, or even good HUMANS, for that matter

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Intermarrige between those who worshiped correctly and those who did not, lead to corruption. You see evidence for this time and time again through history. How did corruption begin in the Jewish nation, hmmmm?

Clearly, the human "daughters of earthlings" [batot h'adam] are being contrasted with some other race that is not of earthly origin, who are Nephilim ["those who descended, those who came down"] which the Bible sometimes translates as "giants."

"Giants" can also mean "mighty men" (for a giant is a mighty man, no?). Mighty "men" before God refers to those men who rose to power in first human governments - check out how Nimrod is described - establishing their own human laws and practice on the people through a government. What exactly does eschatological prophesy seem to indicate? What?! A man made government replacing God's laws with it's own human constructs.

"The Pattern" repeats! Nothing "new" under the son my friend.

[Quix]

This part:

and that you find fault with anyone that believes himself to know the Lord and disagree?

is not true.

I get weary, wary and sometimes overly . . . annoyed with what SOUNDS, FEELS, SEEMS, APPEARS to be a certain kind of rigid closed mindedness that is based much more to totally on emotional, psychological, sociological factors instead of on the Solid Word of God.

Life is soooooooo incredibly complex. Even Biblical, genuine Christianity is incredibly complex in practice in many cases. I think the basic principles are simple. But living them out requires constant dialogue with Holy Spirit to get it anywhere near right. IMHO.

And I have learned the hard way, the very hard way, that MOST, if not all, tidy little personal boxed Christianity is much closer to the pharisee sorts of things Jesus was most punitive toward than near any kind of viable Godliness. And I have been there and done that in spades and still have to be watchful about myself over such.

I also am 100% convinced that tons of what goes for even modern Pentecostal/Charismatic Christianity is fossilized man's doctrine stuff at least somewhat deadly to the Spirit and LIFE OF CHRIST manifested daily in individual lives AS HE DESIRES.

The SCRIPTURES declare that THE LETTER OF THE LAW KILLS and THE SPIRIT BRINGS LIFE, LIBERTY.

I have just found that abundantly and persistently so. And that relatively few Christians seem to realize which side of that--that they are on--on any given day or issue. Again. I've been there, done that in spades and still have to guard against it.

I also KNOW DEEPLY IN MY BONE MARROW that GOD REALLY IS GOING TO SHAKE ALL THAT CAN BE SHAKEN. Some believe serious shaking will begin this year along with dramatic miracles. If the Taipei church thing is any clue--I believe such will be this year. God is thoroughly fed up with the sickness in His Body. HE WILL HAVE A SPOTLESS BRIDE and only HE can clean us up suitable for such. But we have to cooperate as best we can.

Man has a virtually obsessive natural, fleshy tendency to take even solid doctrine and build a fossilized structure--thought/philosophical and organizational structure--which is almost immediately deadly. In my experience, any Christian group older than about a year and a half quickly begins to be convinced that THEY HAVE A FIRM, CLEAR, RIGID, LOFTY, HOLY CORNER ON TRUTH AND SPIRITUAL REALITY which everyone else will suffer greatly for not having.

Freud's old IN-GROUP/OUT-GROUP STUFF wherein he declared that even a religion of love would be unloving to those not members of it. We have sadly been proving him too right for centuries. God is fed up with that.

Denominations have been somewhat useful in articulating specific corners of neglected truth in many cases. But mostly God is horrified and fed up with the satanic divisions within Christianity.

That won't mean a homoginization to the lowest common denominator. I don't know how He will do it. I just know the walls are coming down for those who truly Love Jesus and want a relationship with The Father. I know that in some mission field areas I labored in, loving the sinner into the Kingdom was much more important than doctrinal details on relatively petty issues.

People are going to hell in handbaskets and by the train fulls. Pissing in the wind and getting into petty pissing contests over minor issues will not cut it in terms of God's priorities.

Unity of heart and purpose in the brotherhood of Christ's Blood before The Cross led of His Spirit will be sufficient. Getting fussed up about something God is not calling us to make a stand on will not be tolerated in the times ahead.

I don't know how to talk about this better. Words quickly become inadequate at some point.

BTW, Chris, have you had any impressions or thoughts on any of this aspect of reality?

[biblewonk]

I'm speechless. Have a nice day.

[Quix]

Have a day blessed in His Spirit, yourself.

[Quix]

YUP.

THANKS.

Sigh.

[realpatriot71]

There's too much technology and other stuff involved. SOME UFO 'craft' MAY be demons materializing to appear as craft. And SOME craft may be some sort of alive something. But it is very difficult to believe that all of them are.

Stuff? Difficult to believe, why?

I don't have any difficulty at all believing that demons/fallen angels are ET's, in cahoots with ET's filling bioengineered ET bodies--all or any combination of the above

Good. Perhaps there is still room for discourse on the subject.

I don't have any trouble at all construing that as referring, in part, to countless other planets, races, critters in need of the full measure of redemption and salvation bought on The Cross.

The problem here being, (1) that God died as a Human, (2) the Bible is silent in regards to other created races/beings, and (3) if God died for the sins of all creation, he died for the angels too.

But for there to be NO other inhabited planets etc. would seem like an uncharacteristic wastefulness of space on God's part. And, He seems to be thoroughly . . . given to RELATIONSHIP with intelligent creatures made to some degree in His image. AND HE SEEMS TO THOROUGHLY ENJOY VARIETY AND DIVERSITY. That also seems to fit.

Agreed. The God that reefers to Himself as the Creator, probably has created other races - we know He created the angels, for instance. However, there is NO Biblical evidence that the Prideful corruption of Satan spread to anyone other than 1/3 of the angels. Furthermore, since we're talking about the "chartacter" of God, why would He allow such a spread of corruption to other world(s) and then not expound upon such a point(s) in His Word to this world, especially considering the exact discussion we happen to be having here - God's Gospel is God's guide to salvation. God is CLEAR in His word. He is not mysterious. Anything done in secret, is not of God. The cognitive dissonance as it applies to ET's comes in trying to describe ET's within any context that doesn't assume they are evil. The position that some ET's/aliens are "good" creates more questions, than it answers.

The best deception is 99% truth.