When UFOs Arrive

www.popularmechanics.com ^ | February 2004 | BY JIM WILSON

[Modernman]

Not so much we, as our CATTLE, that are the culinary delicacy,

For an extremely intelligent, advanced species, we might very well be no better than cattle.

They also need Gold, of course.

Doubtful. Gold's value as a precious mineral is a very human concept. We find gold pretty, who says aliens will? Gold is a good conductor, true, but a spacefaring civilization will have access to much more highly advanced conductors.

Humans are useful both to raise and slaughter the cattle, and mine the gold.

Robotic laborers can do these job better than humans.

[Chris Talk]

And who was it that taught humans to value it, enslaving them to work in their mines?

[Chris Talk]

Not that they would value our LIVES higher than cattle, but the cattle taste better, are bigger and meatier, have fewer communicable diseases, are easier to catch and slaughter, and are furthermore required by the aliens for their nutrition.

[Chris Talk]

Ever seen a robot round up a herd? What a laugh, my heroes have always been cowboys, say the aliens.

[biblewonk]

Let's turn this around, for the sake of argument. What if we do find life on other planets. It doesn't even have to be anything advanced- something no more complex than an amoeba. What does that do to one's religious beliefs?

That's a good thing to ask. The bible says that God created life on earth, then made the stars and planets. Finding an amoeba on another planet would be quite a big problem to fundamentalists. In other words, it destroys our whole world view.

[Modernman]

Doesn't do anything: There are many mansions in my Father's house...

I think first contact would heavily influence all the religions on Earth. Just as an example, it would be impossible to take the idea that God created man in His image literally.

The theological debate would be fascinating. Do aliens have souls? Do they go to the same heaven/hell as humans? Is there such a thing as an alien Jesus? (since, according to Christians, the only way to get to heaven is through faith in Jesus or faith plus good works, there must either be an alien Jesus, or the rules must be different for the aliens as to how they get to heaven) Are there an alien ten commandments?

[CougarGA7]

GORT invented Al Gore.

[biblewonk]

So what's to preclude that there are purposes for stars not mentioned in the Bible? That is to provide homage for alien life forms?

The centrality of the earth in the days of creation precludes that.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

Doubtful. Gold's value as a precious mineral is a very human concept. We find gold pretty, who says aliens will? Gold is a good conductor, true, but a spacefaring civilization will have access to much more highly advanced conductors.

I don't think we have found much gold in meteorites. Gold seems to be very rare in this solar system. It's not just pretty and a good conductor(actually only fair its used for contacts because it does not corrode). It has many uses, one very important one is as an effective radiation shield, better than lead yet it does not corrode. Because of the longevity of gold it would be very useful in a very long distant space craft which travel for hundreds of years as a robot or as its beings are in suspended animation.

[Chris Talk]

Much more than amoebas, already found on Mars, to say nothing of the Moon.

[Chris Talk]

The New Testament says,

"Go ye into all the Cosmos, and preach the Gospel to every Creature."

Before you know it, Christians will be passing out tracts in that bar in Star Wars, witnessing for Jesus.

[Modernman]

And who was it that taught humans to value it, enslaving them to work in their mines?

Gold is valued by humans becuase we find it aesthetically pleasing, it is rare and it is easy to work with and turn into jewelry. The only way an advanced species would consider gold to be as valuable is if they saw the world the same way we do (rather tham say, in the infrared spectrum, or through sound or smell) and had the same sense of aesthetics (shiny=pretty).

And, again, slave labor is a pain. If they loved gold so much, it would be much simpler for them to send robotic miners and processors to the asteroids or to an uninhabited moon and get their gold from there. Using primitive humans to mine it is an extremely innefficent way to get gold.

[Little Ray]

You would have to define a soul and figure out a way to measure it before you can say something does or does not have a soul. I'm something of an animist; if you associate with something long enough it seems to developer its own personality; what's to say it doesn't have a spirit of some sort (computers are esp. bad about this...).
Either that, or I've been reading Oh My Goddess too long...

As for God's approach to alien salvation, I figure he'd use something commensurate with the species, culture, and environment - that something might or might not be like Christ. Big question would be what is the end result... Being an SF fan and a gamer, I've tried to imagine some alien religions.
By definition there would be some sort of "law giver." If we didn't have Moses, we'd have Hammurabi. The same would be true of the aliens.

[Modernman]

Ever seen a robot round up a herd?

Just because we can't build robots that can round up cattle, doesn't mean that an advanced spacefaring civilization can't do better.

[biblewonk]

Do you believe they have been found there?

[Chris Talk]

Humans are much cheaper than robots. We do not build million-dollar robots to sew our garments together. We have it done in Honduras, Bangladesh, India, etc.

Humans are already here, do not have to shipped in, are self-replacing and easily disposable, don't really have to be repaired, require no electricity or feeding from the aliens, since they grow their own food. Can work in extremely hot and cold environments, live on almost nothing, much more durable than animals...

[Modernman]

The bible says that God created life on earth, then made the stars and planets. Finding an amoeba on another planet would be quite a big problem to fundamentalists. In other words, it destroys our whole world view.

Hmm.... If we say that everything the Bible says is literally true (leaving aside the whole "created in God's image" problem), I'm not sure the existence of microbes necesarily is a problem. After all, the Bible can be literally true, but at the same time it can be incomplete. I don't think the Bible ever claims to be a complete description of everything in reality.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

he centrality of the earth in the days of creation precludes that.

ROTFLMAO! The central figure is the Sun not the earth, the first thing made is the Sun and stars, then night and day. Later, the verse gets back to the subject as to night and day and seasons it says, "He also made the stars.". It doesn's say when he made the stars, but since stars are the universe's source of light it can be assumed that stars were the first thing made.

I suggest you do more bible study!

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=GEN+1&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on

[Chris Talk]

Some life forms we have found, and some have found US. [Or our craft, for those who do not believe any humans have been to Mars.]

Martian life forms, now dead of course, have even been found in Martian meteorites on Earth... and another question is how on earth [NPI] they GOT here!

[Modernman]

I don't think we have found much gold in meteorites. Gold seems to be very rare in this solar system.

Even if it's really rare, the sheer volume of matter in the asteroid fields or wherever you choose to mine would allow for a good amount of gold to be processed. Say gold comprises only one thousandth (or one millionth) of a percent of the matter in the asteroid field. Self-replicating robotic gold miners would be able to gather huge amounts of the stuff at very low cost.