VANITY - What's the Follow-On Firearm/Rifle Standard Issue for Our Armed Forces?

[Frank_Discussion]

Howdy. What's the next set of standard issue weapons for the U.S. Armed Forces? I'm writing a short story that includes a battle in the near future. I'd like the story to have a certain level of realism.

Thanks, Y'all!

[in the Arena]

incoming....

[Frohickey]

I hear that the OICW is dead.

[Frank_Discussion]

Should I take cover?

lol...

[Frank_Discussion]

That's good to know.

What's the OICW?

[Snake65]

The OICW is pretty cool.

[BenLurkin]

[Snake65]

I heard the electronics, and especially the batteries, are a big problem. But that's a "heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend" chatter.

[Steel Wolf]

How far in the near future are you looking, and what branch / units are you looking to write about?

[Frank_Discussion]

Is that a Blunderbuss? What, are we going to fight cossacks or moose in the next war?

[Frank_Discussion]

Special Forces (Delta), and the very next set of weapons that become standard issue. If the next set is more beyond five years, then what does Delta carry now?

[in the Arena]

Ha ! No, but this should generate a lot of dicussion. I always felt archy was the go-to-guy for this type of information, and if the OICW is dead he would know the reason why or why not...

[Frank_Discussion]

So right you are! It looks a little complicated, but if it is reliable, WOW!

[Gorjus]

I hear that the OICW is dead.

Likely so, and for the obvious reasons - too heavy (and that is far and away the most important reason) and too complex.

The near term answer is more of the same. The biggest advances over the current M16A3 are likely to be in ammunition, not a change in the basic rifle. For all the wildly strident opinions to the contrary, for grunt soldiers (and yes, I know there are diverging opinions even within first line troops, but by and large . . ), the M16 is considered the best battle rifle in the world today.

And the trend in ammunition is directly opposite of what all those wildly strident opinions demand. Instead of going back to a .30 cal rifle like the M1 or M14, the new ammunition designs employ smaller bullets, two or three in a single 5.56mm round to give a shotgun effect that is still disabling out to 300 meters. So for a story set in the next ten years, there's not likely to be any change at all.

Any further changes are likely to be cosmic sighting systems that incorporate low-light-level TV or IR sensors and a remote, helmet-mounted sight so you can shoot with the rifle around the corner, or use the rifle like a flashlight/periscope. The biggest problem with those advances is that the battery life is too limited (weight again). But I expect those will be fielded fairly widely in the next ten years.

Now for the buck-the-trend prediction. The US has gotten arrogant in thinking that only we will have effective body armor. Our troops are carrying body armor that can defeat .30 cal rifle ammo (at least 7.62x39 - AK47 ammo). If we can field it widely now, then in a few years it will become common enough to be an issue.

My prediction is that in 15 years (which is about how long it would take if they started now with normal development, or how long it will take with a panic development starting ten years from now when they see the need - because of problems in real combat) there will be a return to a .30 cal weapon, or even a bit larger, firing a sub-caliber penetrating munition to defeat enemy body armor. It will have a muzzle velocity 50% larger than current ammunition (5000fps) and have a very flat, easy to aim trajectory. It will have fins, ostensible for guidance but primarily so that the round doesn't punch a small hole going in and a small hole going out. How's that for lurching out of the box?

[Steel Wolf]

Delta is a different animal, and I don't profess to know what they carry, although I understand they have some leeway in what they choose.

As far as most Army SF, you're probably looking at an M4A1 (fully auto, not burst) carbine with a collapsable stock, and modular rail system that allows you to mount Surefire flashlights, laser aiming points, hand grips, a variety of optics (ACOG reflex or 4x), sound suppressors a few of the newer shortbarreled M203 grenade launchers. They'll also have M9 Berreta sidearms in a leg hosler with 15 round mags. A full ODA would probably lug around an M82 Barret .50 cal sniper rifle or two, depending on what they're up to, and possibly a M249 SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) or a M240G machine gun. The weapons will often be bowflaged (spray painted) to match the terrain.

Or so I hear.

[Frohickey]

My prediction is that in 15 years (which is about how long it would take if they started now with normal development, or how long it will take with a panic development starting ten years from now when they see the need - because of problems in real combat) there will be a return to a .30 cal weapon, or even a bit larger, firing a sub-caliber penetrating munition to defeat enemy body armor. It will have a muzzle velocity 50% larger than current ammunition (5000fps) and have a very flat, easy to aim trajectory. It will have fins, ostensible for guidance but primarily so that the round doesn't punch a small hole going in and a small hole going out. How's that for lurching out of the box?

Theoretical max for a conventional cartridge with smokeless propellant and standard bullets is 7000FPS. The highest velocity cartridge currently available in a man-portable rifle is the 220Swift and that drives a 55grain bullet at 4000FPS, or a hair over. I don't think we will get 5000FPS without a change in bullet composition or propellant.

I could see a return to the 30 caliber rifle, firing saboted 22 caliber steel penetrator bullets.

[BenLurkin]

MOOSES by yiminy and they better not ask us to "Say Cheese", no sir.

[Frank_Discussion]

That was an immensely helpful post. Thanks a million. My "team" will be carrying M4A1's and M9 Berretas.

Thanks all for the help, it's all good!

[in the Arena]

If you are going with a Delta like outfit, they should have a tricked 1911 as a sidearm. I believe most of the operators go this route...the M92 has taken a beating in Afghanistan and Iraq and is receiving less than stellar reports. Either 1911 or Mark 23 SOCOM...in .45ACP of course...

[PoorMuttly]

"a .30 cal weapon, or even a bit larger, firing a sub-caliber penetrating munition to defeat enemy body armor. It will have a muzzle velocity 50% larger than current ammunition (5000fps) and have a very flat, easy to aim trajectory. It will have fins, ostensible for guidance but primarily so that the round doesn't punch a small hole going in and a small hole going out."

Hey...Muttly WANT !!!

...now as to your story...the Day is still Young, glasshoppa...and you should just stick around until the rest of the Think Tank checks in. This should be GREAT fun...and already IS !!!