Carry and Ammunition Suggestions for Condition Orange (Freeper Suggestions-Vanity)

The Usual Suspects ^ | 12/21/2003 | Section9

[wardaddy]

[Squantos]

Kewl.......looks good but can it sing ?;O) I'll have to read up on that as I can't afford one.....:o)

Stay Safe !

[cheesebus]

A nice package of Safeway bacon will incapacitate any Allah-fearing Jaleel Jihad from a mile away. It comes in its own holster, and you don't have to worry about it if a stray strip hits Santa at the mall. The ultimate fire and forget anti-Islamist weapon.

[Uncle Jaque]

RE:

"... I also keep an old CZ 52 with two spare mags. It penetrates well which would be likely in a vehicle to vehicle confrontation. Also cheap enough that I wouldn't cry if it were stolen."

Interesting you should mention the old Czech-O-Matic!
You might be interested in the related discussions on:

http://pub113.ezboard.com/fparallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforumsfrm15

Where we have been researching some potential safety issues with these interesting guns.

Given appropriate JHP rounds for this old "Pocket Carbine", it would make a very capable tactical carry piece; although not commonly available, some small outfits are beginning to roll some good tac loads and of course us reloaders are coming up with some pretty impressive loadings for 'em too.

For around $100 to a C&R FFL or Dealer (+ a small transfer fee, usually around $30 through a Class 1 Dealer) the CZ-52 is a heck of a bargain; some Shooters claim that it will outshoot and is more reliable than their Glock!

And don't let that that little .30 cal. hole at the end fool you;
The old 7.62 X 25mm packs considerably more whallop than a 9MM, with a 90-grain bullet snapping out @ around 16,500 FPS and generating over 500# of ME! Users report shattering engine blocks as well as penetrating both sides of a kevlar vest and on through both sides of the junk car it was hung on - and from my own observations I tend to believe them.

Touch one off downrange some time and see how it'll get your attention! The first time I fired mine under a covered firing line last Winter, it set off an avalanche of snow off of the roof!
Wear plenty of ear protection!

I have found that the more streamlined contours of the CZ are significantly more comfortable to pack CWC than the M-1911-A1, despite their similar size and weight.

I might cry if someone nipped my CZ-52, since I've about doubled the cost of it in aftermarket accessories, I have become rather fond of it, and I certainly would not want some gremlin running around with it!

If you can't take it with you and have to leave it unattended in the vehicle, I'd reccomend popping the slide off (easy to do with this design) and taking that; at least a gremlin is not so apt to rob or kill anybody with a frame, and is unlikely to pick up a new slide & barrel at the 5 and dime.

Unless you are in the PRK, they shouldn't lock you up for carrying a concealed gun part. Then again...(?)

Speaking of SD for the budget-minded; Bulgarian Tokarevs are a super deal right now, and those who have them rave about their reliability. The 9 X 18MM round is fairly available from a number of sources, and is just about as capable as the 9mm Para or .38 Special.

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

I carry an Iver-Johnson Pony in .380. Better than the Colt. Better safety mechanism. Silvertips.

Dissapears completly in smartcarry, or very convenient in a jacket pocket in cool weather. If I'm expecting trouble, SP101 in .357 mag, Hydras. It doesn't hide quite as well because I'm small, and it hurts to shoot with a magnum load, so you won't shoot casually, and if it hurts me to shoot it, I'm comfy that it will hurt the one shot a lot more.

[Uncle Jaque]

RE:

"Just put a form Wrongful Death complaint in your safe deposit box, and be a Baysian..."

'Ey, Mate; whatever it is you're drinkin', I'll 'ave a pint of it down 'ere! };^{)~

Cheers!

[4CJ]

OTOH, I think Eaker is brilliant to have the same Glock .40s stashed all over, with all family members equally trained up on them, and mags and ammo interchangeable like crazy if TSHTF.

I'd agree. I have never understood why anyone would do otherwise.

[yarddog]

I first became interested in the CZ when the American Rifleman did a test on it.

One of the things they mentioned was that the Czech ammo was 20% hotter than the Russian Tokarev ammo and the Russian was 20% hotter than the original Mauser loading which was fairly hot to start with.

I was talking to a firearms instructor at the Treasury training facility near Brunswick, GA and he mentioned they had tried the hot CZ loadings on a bullet proof vest (I don't recall which level but got the impression it was a fairly high one) and the bullet went right through it.

My older Brother had several CZ 52's and bought one of the 9mm barrels. He was experimenting on using the longer 148 grain bullets seated out in the case so as to give greater powder capacity than normally would be possible with those bullets. It aslo had the benefit of fitting the original magazines for which the 9mm is normally too short.

He died before he had completed his experiments and his Son has them now.

I am not really worried all that much about it being stolen. I live in a pretty low crime rate, rural area and always lock the vehicle.

[meyer]

A nice package of Safeway bacon will incapacitate any Allah-fearing Jaleel Jihad from a mile away. It comes in its own holster, and you don't have to worry about it if a stray strip hits Santa at the mall. The ultimate fire and forget anti-Islamist weapon.

The only problem with that is that I would probably eat the bacon, rendering its value as a weapon useless. Mmmmmmm...

[Tijeras_Slim]

Re: 5 through 8

You got a hi-cap mouse for Christmas?

[meyer]

I carry an Iver-Johnson Pony in .380. Better than the Colt. Better safety mechanism. Silvertips.

Iver-Johnson - That's a name I haven't heard in a long time. I don't know much about them, but they are reputable. I can't speak at all about the safety mechanisms, but I'd be pretty hard-pressed to find something unsafe about my small Colt revolver.

Dissapears completly in smartcarry, or very convenient in a jacket pocket in cool weather. If I'm expecting trouble, SP101 in .357 mag, Hydras. It doesn't hide quite as well because I'm small, and it hurts to shoot with a magnum load, so you won't shoot casually, and if it hurts me to shoot it, I'm comfy that it will hurt the one shot a lot more.

.357 is a very good, potent cartridge. I have a Python in the safe, but I don't intend to carry it. Its a wonderful gun to shoot, with a very clean, buttery-smooth trigger action, but I'd rather not put holster wear on such a fine weapon. I have other choices.

Right now, the little Colt Det. Spec. .38 is sporting +P hollowpoints for that little extra "oomph" when I fire it.

[Uncle Jaque]

RE my #184;

OOPS; Make that 1,600 FPS!

Got carried away, there! {;^{D~

[Uncle Jaque]

RE the CZ-52; for a while there, you could get Federal drop-in barrels chambered in the 9MM LARGO, which meets or slightly exceeds ballistics of the old .38 Super Auto.

One Gunsmith out West chambered a couple of them in 9MM Winchester Magnum!

I'd be a little reluctant to push the envelope quite that far - but he claims that after two years he has never heard of either Customer having a problem with them.

The market is rich currently for those of us with a C&R FFL; as someone mentioned earlier, it would not surprise me a bit if some political hack like RIDGE managed to create some facade of "national emergency" and felt that disarming the American Sheeple would be the best way to restore law and order to the realm. In such cases we could very well see the abundant supply of inexpensive military surplus arms now available to us dry up really fast.

I think a lot of my fellow C&Rs share this suspicion, and seem to be stocking right up on $100 CZ-52s and Yugoslavian SKSs.

They are both a lot of gun for the money!

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

I think Iver-Johnson went under shortly after acquiring the pony from Colt. Have a fine old shotgun by them I inherited from my grandfather. Tough to be in the gun business in socialist hell Massachusetts.

[Uncle Jaque]

Here's a round of Yugolsavian milsurp 7.62 X 25MM:

And it's launcher:

The CZ-52 will fit in about any holster made for the M-1911 series.

[11Bush]

Anything past 500 yards I call in arty support.

[PoorMuttly]

This tale bothered me all night, so I just paced it off...@ 90 yards, to the best of my recollection. Even if it was 80, and with #6...impressive. Quite a gun. Would have been useless without XX-FULL choke though. DOUBLE-X !

Oh...it WAS Sgt. York I had in mind, so you hit it right on the head.

Again, as is often said by the Old Salts....it's the man, not the gun...but if the gun is capable of it, even a feller like me can do it, if he does it right. I really took my time.

Good shooting today !

[stuartcr]

Unfortunately, if you work in a fed area, you are not allowed to carry, even in your vehicle.

[Blue Collar Christian]

Enjoyed swappin' stories. I'm practizing my turkey gobble right now waiting for my buddy and his jeep so we can head on out. Be shooting 19th century stuff most of the day today, Danish rolling block reemed out for .45-70 Govt and muzzle stuffers. Still taking my Ted and my .30-06 sprg, new scope on the CZ and gotta zero.

See you in the funny papers. ;^)

[PoorMuttly]

Well brother Squantos, I carry a Hi-Power loaded with Cor-Bon 124 JHPs, followed by Ball, and a .357 snub. If I still had a 1911, which I intend to replace, I would certainly know I was well-armed. I would also be carrying lighter bullets, for more reach and penetration, then Ball, of course. I HAVE the Browning, and it is a 1911 type mechanism, which I have confidence in. After penetration tests, we found that the "European Policewoman's Round" 9mm would zip right into the "bullet resistant" steel we were using for a particular municipal project, and the .45 would barely make a dent. Add to that the flatter-shooting quality, and the accuracy of our even fixed-sighted Brownings, along with capacity, and ammo insensitivity...we carried them on-the-job in warehouses, and when anticipating vehicular situations, so now it is my SOP. I just do not consider it a "stopper" without jazzy JHPs, which are inconsistent from reports I've read...but I consider it a penetrator, and a sniping-from-cover tool, like a carbine. I would really like to find 124gr. +P Ball, however, and if anyone has any leads, I'd appreciate it. I do NOT use 110gr. heads, at all. I hate even thinking about our troops being so undergunned in real harm's way. Cringe.

There is a 7-shot S&W L-Frame .357 I am very interested in, and would like in 3 1/2 to 4" barrel. Since I often carry a 4 5/8" .357 SAA for coyotes etc. on our rural property, I guess you'd say I am a fan or the little round...although the .44s still rule, and I find it hard to fault the .44 Special for any reason except bullet drop, but then, my .44 revolvers are .44 Magnums, so the longer-range potential is there. I favor the L-Frame on advice from our pal Paco Kelly, which he says has a longer cylinder than the N, so can be loaded with heavier, longer bullets...where the .357 really shines. It's kind of a squirt in the fightin' woods with 158grs.

My point is, our popular pistols are largely underpowered, close-range affairs...and in one-gun survival scenarios, or real stoppin' nightmares...they don't usually come anywhere NEAR a rifle or shotgun. When one desires a handgun to do a rifle's job, we'd better leave our comfortable to carry .45-9mm autos at home, and grab a longer-barreled magnum (or .45 Colt) revolver, and too much ammunition, as we bug out. Practice to be fast and accurate with a powerful handgun, and you have a fight-stopper, and also crowd the carbine's space. This could prove useful. If I could not hit a pie-plate at 100 yards with my Browning, kneeling (although I don't think it has much remaining power there), I would only carry .357/.44 revolvers. May even consider a Desert Eagle, for firepower...until it jammed !