Orban Going, But Orbanism Coming To Europe

Rod Dreher Substack ^

[Tench_Coxe]

See that guy above? His name is Akos, and I’ve been seeing him around ever since I moved to Hungary. Big man with a big heart, loves Orban. There he was last night at the Fidesz Party’s election gathering, bathed in orange light (orange is the party color), waiting for the first election results to come in.

(snip)

The thing is, Magyar is not a figure of the political Left, which remains unpopular in Hungary. What he basically offered voters is “Orban, but without the corruption.” On the key issues that infuriate Brussels about Orban’s Hungary — his hardline on migrants and asylum seekers, and his adamant desire to keep Hungary out of the Ukraine war — there’s no difference between Orban and Magyar, except that Magyar might even be tougher than Orban on migration. When he takes power, Magyar is going to have to either disappoint his allies in the EU establishment, or disappoint millions of his voters. Personally, I expect him to be the cat’s paw of Brussels. For Hungary’s sake, I hope I’m wrong.

(snip)

But — and I can’t say this strongly enough — Hungarians do not support the EU’s policies toward Ukraine, and they all still back Orban’s hardline on keeping borders strong. Had Peter Magyar openly taken the EU line on either issue, he would probably not be the incoming prime minister. In fact, Magyar got to the right of Orban on migration, promising to cut off work visas for foreigners, that had been approved by Fidesz.

(snip)

The EU loves to promote itself as “defending democracy,” but it’s very important for Americans to understand that “democracy” is when voters choose candidates with the EU stamp of approval. I can tell you for certain that the Orban government was prepared, in the event that they won, for “Euromaidan” style mass protests — a color revolution organized by the EU.

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TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: bozosloverapefugees; nathanbedfordclown; nationalreview; putinthewarpig; roddreher; russiankeywordtroll; russiansuicide; substack; substackloser; thebozo; vladtheimploder; zeepsloverapefugees

[Tench_Coxe]

Long read, but from the viewpoint if an observer living there. I recall reading a few of Dreher's National Review articles in the past.
Much better take than the BS the Zeepers have been shiveling on this site. I agree with Dreher's last word:
Last word: there will be in the US an insatiable hunger from Trump critics to see the Orban defeat as a bellwether for Trump. On one level, it’s silly; as I’ve emphasized here, Orban lost for reasons specific to Hungary’s situation. You can’t plausibly read a broad international message out of this result. Parties aligned with Orban’s vision will continue to grow in popularity here in Europe, because people are increasingly fed up with mass migration.

[packagingguy]

The Hungarians I know said Magyar left the Fidez party over corruption not policy, so this article tracks with what they said.

[No name given]

Agreed.

[tlozo]

his adamant desire to keep Hungary out of the Ukraine war — there’s no difference between Orban and Magyar

LOL, really? Orban offered to be a helpful "little mouse" to Putin, the "lion". "No difference", is Magyar going to be Putin's little mouse? Hell No!

"Yesterday our friendship rose to such a high level that I can help in any way,” Orbán reportedly told Putin in the call. “In any matter where I can be of assistance, I am at your service.”

In an attempt to emphasise his point, Orbán was said to have made reference to one of Aesop’s fables in which a mouse who was earlier shown mercy by a lion goes on to free the same lion when it is netted by hunters. The remark drew a laugh from Putin, the transcript suggested.

[FLT-bird]

I sincerely hope Peter Magyar will keep his word to the voters and keep Rapefugees out of Hungary and keep the Groomers out of schools, but I cannot watch the Yurp elites, Obama, Soros and Hillary Clinton celebrate something and not believe it will be an utter disaster.

[dfwgator]

The EU is going to apply a lot of pressure on him.

The first thing to look for is who is going to run ministries, like Education.

This is what happened in Poland. Tusk appointed a real nutbag, who belonged to the extreme Left party to run Education, and is now indoctrinating the next generation of Polish students.

[Tench_Coxe]

That's why, like Dreher, I'm afraid Magyar will be the EU cat's paw.

Its also why despise the Zeepers. Why the lot of them haven't gotten the zot is beyond me. By and large, they're scum.

[nathanbedford]

Perhaps it would be more instructive to ask yourself why the Trump administration openly and notoriously intervened in Hungary's election in support of a man who has by his own words convicted himself of being Putin's Bitch even though when Orbán's opponent will be more strict than Orbán on immigration, and hopefully more supportive of Ukraine.

So the administration supports Putin's ally instead of the candidate who might be more accommodating to the European Union? Do any of us honestly think that the European Union is a more dangerous threat than Putin's Russia?

How many nations has the European Union invaded in the last 10 years? How many has Putin's Russia invaded?

How many internal political opponents have European Union leaders defenestrated? How many has Putin?

How many times has the European Union threatened neighbors with nuclear attack? How many times has Russia?

Is it the European Union or Russia that has aligned itself with Iran, North Korea, China, Cuba, and Venezuela?

Was it NATO countries or Russia that went to the aid of the United States in Afghanistan and fought and bled there?

Is it Russia or the European Union that is supplying arms and intelligence to Iran?

Is it that the United States is more closely aligned with Russia than with Ukraine? More closely aligned with Russia than the European Union?

[FLT-bird]

even though when Orbán's opponent will be more strict than Orbán on immigration,

Will he though? That's what he promised his voters yet the people you see celebrating him winning and the ones who poured a lot of money into interfering in Hungarian politics to get him elected are all open borders types.

As for the value of the Europeans as allies.....get real. Very few of them did any real fighting in Afghanistan and until the last year or so most of them were spending absolutely pathetic amounts on defense just freeloading on Uncle Sugar to provide their defense for them. As it is, several of them not only denied us the use of bases we have in their countries but then even denied us overflight. In addition to that, several have shown sympathy for the regime in Iran.

I still remember having this discussion with several of my German profs when I lived in Germany in the 1990s. Germany has long had a policy of "constructive engagement" with the Mullahs in Iran.....ie profiteering off of brutal dictatorships the Americans have embargoed. They did the same with Saddam's Iraq and still do the same with Cuba. Hey any chance to undermine America and squeeze out an extra nickel for yourself......

[nathanbedford]

His position on immigration enforcement was perfectly clear and more strict than Orbon's.

Some of our European allies fought in Afghanistan and suffered casualties proportionately and to an excessive degree, America sustained casualties. I agree the overflight restrictions are misguided and even petulant, perhaps as a reaction to Trump's gratuitous belligerence.

Orbon's degrading servility to Putin is order of magnitude worse than "constructive engagement." Please note the relationship that the United States has cultivated with Saudi Arabia, even in the wake of 9/11.

Taking everything you advance, without considering the counter propositions, it is nevertheless remarkable that you do not deal with the issue of supporting criminal Russia over Ukraine or the EU.

[volare737]

Maybe I am being way too cynical here, but I’m tired of some pretending to be somewhat moderate (at least here in the US), and then going full LEFT once in office.

[Carry_Okie]

Parties aligned with Orban’s vision will continue to grow in popularity here in Europe, because people are increasingly fed up with mass migration Islamic conquest.

Fixed, and not fed up enough to dump their social welfare gravy train.

[FLT-bird]

His position on immigration enforcement was perfectly clear and more strict than Orbon's.

Yes that was his position on the campaign trail. We'll see if he sticks to it or if he does the EU's bidding as well as those who backed him.

I'm not at all sold on what the Europeans did in Afghanistan. A few of them were legitimate. Then there were others like Germany whose troops had to be put in a safe zone where they wouldn't see combat, whose rules of engagement were so restrictive we couldn't take them along on missions and whose own Defense minister labeled "too fat to fight". There were others along the same lines....like Spain for example. I don't recall the Italians doing a whole helluva lot either.

As for Orban's supposed "subservience" to Putin, I've never bought that. He has tried to steer a middle course. He has urged peace from early on because the Ukrainians can't possibly win a war of attrition. Also, Hungary is a landlocked country that gets about half of its energy from natural gas pipelines from Russia. There is no alternative that will not be vastly more expensive. Hungary gets the other half of its energy from a nuclear power plant. It has plans to double the size of that nuclear power plant at which point it would be far less dependent - but its going to take years to expand the nuclear power plant so until then, they just need to try to avoid a massive spike in energy costs that would crush their economy.

[nathanbedford]

Yes that was his position on the campaign trail. We'll see if he sticks to it or if he does the EU's bidding as well as those who backed him. Magyar won an astonishing absolute majority in parliament because a majority of the people supported his policies. It is unlikely that he will renege on his promises to more strictly enforce immigration and antagonize his voters on a principal issue for the reelection.

There is no question that Orbon would have stuck to his pro-Russia, anti-Ukraine, anti-EU policy, his sellout to Russia was complete.

Orbons "subservience" was not supposed but absolutely explicit in his fawning, sycophantic conversation with Putin.

Hungary is not the only nation geographically exposed to Putin's threat. They have not behaved so cravenly - nor so foolishly resorted to appeasement.

[Texas Eagle]

Europe going to have one big Orbasm?