Posted on 08/06/2025 8:24:29 AM PDT by whyilovetexas111
“The Russians would be stopped where they stood. “
Except it didn’t. They continued their advance in China and declared war on Japan.
Either way Mao was going to win in China, the Soviets probably hasten that victory.
Now you would have both the Soviets and ChiComs ready to pounce on Japan, assuming that by that point the US would have weakened Japan to the point where they could invade.
There’s really no need to invade an island nation with no oil and little natural resources.
my dad was in the occupation force for 6 months in Tokyo before shipping home.
My Dad was the same way. Just a great guy and a good husband and father.
“... that determines how hard you have to hit ‘em.”
We have the same problem in our political settings that is causing a lot of pain to people because of how they interpret their alliances. And that is what made the 2024 election so different from the other elections since the beginning of the 20 century. People got enough of the pain the democrats were causing and voted them out. It hurt so much to not have enough of what you earned to afford food, medicine, comfort of home, not running from debt, and being lied to about how you should be living blaming the “other side (Trump) for everything in existence.
Now do I think it will last...no. People are stupid. They can be swayed with a few words and the bombardment of lies designed to tell them what to think, how to act, and how to vote. And when they don’t reach nirvana, it won’t be a problem until Trump has been dead for about 200 years as the scapegoat. Course the country will go before that. But that’s Trump’s fault also. And they already have a plan...Saul Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals. They’ve been using them since it was written in 1970’s and it feeds on stupidity.
wy69
Thanks for the info. I never heard of that program. I guess it made sense in some ways, but it is absolutely chilling in others. What if Stalin had been anllowed to the turn Japan into a hell hole like he did in Eastern Europe.
My dad was drafted into the navy and was at basic training at Seneca Lake in upstate New York when they dropped the bombs. He was drafted after Germany surrendered so he was heading for the invasion of Japan. He did spend a year after the war in the Aleutian Islands to relive a troop stationed there.
We, (the Allies) didn’t kick the Kaiser out. The Germans did that themselves before the Armistice was even written. The Kaiser had zero power even before the war ended. He was hardly even a figure head. .
For another week.
Being pedantic can be fun, but in this case the result was better than the alternatives.
Or at the very least keep Germany some kind of monarchy, Democracy there was a disaster.
Hitler was the result of economic problems, not missing a monarchy. If the French had been less “French” at Versailles, Hitler would have never collected the following he did. Even the British economist, Maynard Keynes, said that the treaty reached there guaranteed the next war. I never agreed much with Keynes , but he sure as hell nailed that one.
A lot of people are critical of how WWII was ended, but I look at it and say it's been 80 years, and we have not had another World War.
“Technically still at war”
You really need to train Socrates on historical events!
My dad enlisted in the Coast Guard at 18 rather than wait for the draft in the army for the occupation. He too was up in the Aleutian islands c. 1946, as his ship did the Washington St to Alaska zone. Small worlld
Oh yeah, without a doubt. I think we woulda wound up with North and South Japan, like North and South Korea.
And a very good chance Stalin would have grabbed all of Korea.
I only heard of that program this year! It amazes me the things about WWII we are still learning.
There were still other things that would have been done to try to end the war before Operation Downfall.
First, the march to building more factories, increasing production, Europe -> Pacific theater transfer of millions of men (both deployed & those getting ready), more plutonium and uranium production, other types of weapons programs. The Military Industrial Complex would have stayed in overdrive.
Second, dropping the 3rd bomb on Tokyo.
Third, more munititions & activities to soften up the military installations in preparation for final invasion.
Fourth, better handling of the kamikaze threat.
Fifth, excuses made on delaying more atomic strikes to give Japan “one more chance” to think things through & that the US doesn’t want to use any more atomic bombs so Japan should surrender now. It was taking a while to get more built so rather than tell Japan “its taking a while to make these bombs” it would have been better to say “let’s minimize human suffering and thus we are using conventional bombs to remind you that we can strike & that you need to remember that next time we’ll hit you with the big ones when you least expect it”. The Enola Gay & other planes like it could in the meantime make dozens of sorties each on a regular basis to scare them badly, but instead of dropping nuclear bombs they’d be dropping conventional bombs. That would’ve unnerved the Japanese 24/7.
The shock/awe of the first 2 bombs had a major psychological impact and solved the problem. But if they hadn’t then #3 was coming and then if that still didn’t work then I predict we would’ve seen much more focus on air attacks to destroy their propellers and anything that the Japanese could come up with to threaten our Navy, Air Corps, etc. ships, airstrips, installations, etc. within striking distance of the Japanese-controlled areas.
After #3 there would have been a lot of A bombs dropped on Japan in early 1946, along with other munitions, to try to beat them into submission. It would have been very brutal. But the reality is that we’d probably still have to do Downfall anyway as their pride was strong & the shock/awe effect of Hiroshima/Nagasaki would have worn off. We’ve seen this principle in many other global conflicts since then that a bombed country is almost never easily convinced to surrender and that their reaction is almost always to dig in their heels and fight on no matter what the cost. What works best to win wars is shock/awe and then boots on the ground.
The best way to win wars though is to never have to fight the wars. That’s why if the US will have a military that’s second to none & be the beacon of hope to the world of a country where individuals are responsible and government very limited then we’ll be fiscally, economically, and flexibly ready to face any danger to national security. Perhaps our greatest guaranteer of victory is our built-in federalism of this constitutional republic where almost any scenario of decapitation/invasion can be overcome as the States unite together, work to help support the other States being invaded or otherwise having stability issues, and the process for rebuilding the federal government is well-known and in place to happen in an orderly process. It’s why an invasion from abroad or decapitation cannot work against the USA. Even if you were to simultaneously invade all 51 Capitols you’d still have some legislatures and/or governors be able to figure out how to invoke emergency powers to keep their State governments functioning & work with others to help the other States do the same & reconstitute the federal level. Except to have a Quorum of Congress count the Electoral College certifications for President/VP there really isn’t any federal level duty that’s needed by anyone at the federal level in such a scenario where the federal level has been decapitated. In the early days of such a scenario you’d have a league of State governors working to get such a Quorum in place so someone could be put in charge of the American military forces nationwide as official Commander-in-Chief instead of having the extra challenges/risks of trying to keep the league’s militaries all working together under complex management. The inertia towards rebuilding the system as it was before such a decapitation happened would be very strong and patriotic. Once that mission would be accomplished then you’d see the focus turn towards getting every one of the 50 Stars on the Flag restored back to full functioning (with state/local officials in all 3 branches put there by the people as in normal times) and that would be just as patriotic an endeavor as the drive to get the federal system restored. This is why anyone trying to destroy America can only succeed by doing so internally.
You are exactly correct. More over, it is also what Truman believed would happen.
The Jap cities were destroyed and rebuilt bigger and better. Meanwhile Detroit and other democrat run cities since look like they were bombed.
When the Japanese surrendered, my Dad was on a DE riding at anchor on the Caribbean side of the Panama Canal. They were waiting their turn to move through the canal to the Pacific to participate in the invasion of the Japanese homeland. If it were not for the atomic bomb, he would have been part of the invasion fleet and at great risk. As a result of the Japanese surrender, his ship weighed anchor and steamed home.
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