Posted on 06/07/2025 5:03:55 AM PDT by whyilovetexas111
Meh...what’s meaningless is your use of ‘Ukrainian majority’ to describe how territories should be divided. Every Russian speaker in the Donbas considers themselves “Ukrainian”, but that doesn’t mean they want to be governed by a bunch of inbred Bandera-Azov filth...as happened in 2014. The facts on the ground will determine the eventual borders and Zelenski seems determined to lose as much of his country as possible to the Russians...which is fine by me.
No, not every Russian speaker in Donbas considers themselves Ukrainian. Censuses, going back to the Soviet era, show that roughly 60% identified themselves as Ukrainian, and 40% identified themselves as Russian. In Kherson and Zaporizhzia the numbers are even higher, with 80% and 70% Ukrainian respectively. The Ukrainian majorities here are real, no matter how much pro-Russian propagandists want to deny it.
I’m not talking about ethnicity here, I’m talking about national identity. Russian speaking Eastern Ukrainians consider themselves Ukrainian...or did until their democratically elected President was overthrown and replaced with a fascist regime that attacked them.
-btw Western Ukraine is the where the root problem to this conflict resides. Russian speakers from the East to this day are routinely discriminated against there regardless of their ethnicity or allegiance as are ethnic Hungarian, Jews and Romanians.
Remove the Banderite infested Western region from the equation and Ukraine would be able to heal itself.
“What is the magical date to say these are the proper lines?”
it seems when you and the rest of the Uke nationalists say it is. This is the way with all of those stupid bloody ethnic wars. Every nationality in Europe has a claim against somebody else. Americans don’t care about your national chauvinism, and we don’t want to hear about it.
“They are the only ones who have a proper claim to these lands.”
What a pile of BS. Stalin deported the rightful inhabitants of those lands. You’re screeching about poor innocent Ukraine rings hollow when we consider Ukraine is sitting on those stolen lands.
I point to no past borders but rather who lives on the land today. But that does not seem to be important to you. If the Tsar once ruled it in the past then the Russians can claim it today, right? How is that going to work with Poland and Finland?
What a pile of BS. Stalin deported the rightful inhabitants of those lands. You’re screeching about poor innocent Ukraine rings hollow when we consider Ukraine is sitting on those stolen lands.
You must be referring to Crimea which only has a Russian majority because Stalin expelled the native Tartars and replaced them with Russians. The other provinces have long had Ukrainian majorities. Indeed, the large Russian minority in Donbas only dates back to the 19th century when it industrialized and Russians moved in to work in the mines and factories. This is why we see the pattern of Ukrainians in the country side and Russians in the cities.
“How is that going to work with Poland and Finland?”
You distort my point. Poland and Finland are not the same as the other stolen territories that Ukraine holds. Anyway, we Americans don’t want any part of your bloody ethnic hatred for the Russian people. We will help Ukraine defend itself, but we won’t help you get your bloody revenge.
Zelinski and Johnson got a war by tearing up Istanbul and the west including Biden said we will settle tnis on the battlefield.
Russia has crushed the arrogance of the west.
While can argue about the events that led to Yanukovych fleeing to Russia, we cannot about the nature of his successors. They were elected in free elections by the Ukrainian people; they were installed by the CIA. While this is an undeniable fact, Russian apologists cannot admit it because it undercuts their justification for the invasion.
And what is the solution that is being proposed coup? That the people of Donbas want to hand themselves over to a Russian dictatorship that has not had an honest election in twenty years.
Equally ridiculous is the harping about an alleged coup while justifying what were unambiguously actual military coups in Donetsk and Luhansk. Their independence was not declared by the local elected governments, nor by a mass rising of the population. Rather, armed militants stormed government buildings and seized power by force. These were Russian surrogates, not representatives of the people.
To the question of what the people actually think, we have two polls conducted in 2020 and 2022. The results are as follows:
2020So much for the much repeated claim that the people of Donbas want to join Russia. But what about the much flouted referenda? They were so riddled with irregularities that no honest person would ever accept them. Just to show how worthless they are, let us look at Zaporizhzia. The Oblast of Zaporizhzhia has a population of 1,638,462. Its capital, the City of Zaporizhzhia, has a population of 710,052. This accounts for 43% of the population, not including other areas not occupied by the Russians. Having not been occupied by the Russians, none of this was included in the referendum conducted by the Russians. Yet on the basis of this referendum the Russians, and their supporters, claim the the entire oblast has voted to join Russia, and they are demanding that Ukraine hand over hand over the city (whose ethnic population is 70% Ukrainian and only 25% Russian) and its surrounding territory. This shows the uselessness of these referenda. They do not reflect the will of the people. All the Russians wanted was the talking points, and they got them.
- Remain in Ukraine: 54.5%
- Join Russia: 29.3%
- Independence: 6.8%
- Don't know or refused to answer: 18.6%
2022
- Remain in Ukraine: 49.7%
- Join Russia: 22.8%
- Independence: 8.9%
- Don't know or refused to answer: 18.5%
I, many of my other fellow Americans, support Ukraine. Nor is it driven by any ethnic hatred. My ancestry is Italian, not Ukrainian. I have great respect for Russia and its culture and I wish it peace and prosperity. All that I ask is that they live within their own borders. Where is the hate? If there is any hate in this, it is in those who denigrate the Ukrainians as Nazis for opposing Russian domination.
Still pushing that falsehood? there was no agreement at Istanbul. Why are you insisting that there was?
All z had to do was sign off. He choose to reject the initialed agreement, and opt for war.
I’m more concerned with our getting out—ASAP! (with the UN next)
Have you seen the terms that Russia was demanding? They are the same ones they are demanding today. They would have reduced Ukraine to a vassal state. There was no way that Ukraine was going to agree. And let us get the terminology right. There was no “agreement.” There were only the terms that Russia was demanding.
Sure Jan. Your anger shows in every post. You pick at old scabs and nurse ancient grievances no real American would care about.
Wanting Russia to live peacefully within its own borders and not seek to subjugate its neighbors is hateful. Got it!
“Wanting Russia to live peacefully within its own borders and not seek to subjugate its neighbors is hateful. Got it!”
Again, you’re distorting what I posted. You don’t want peace. You hate the Russian people and want bloody revenge on them. That’s hateful. A huge difference.
On what do you base this? Be specific. I have consistently stated that all I wanted is for the Russians to go home. Show where I have ever indicated that I wanted anything more. Your charges of hate just show your frustration at not having any rational response. You use "hate" like the left does, to avoid discussing the actual issues. Anyone who disagrees with you must hate.
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