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The only thing that has kept Ukraine in the war is their drones. The drones on both sides make any offensive move near suicidal. The days of massed armored attack are over regardless of the quality of the equipment.
1 posted on 04/13/2025 5:06:46 AM PDT by hardspunned
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To: hardspunned

he Leopard 2A6 is too expensive and complex to maintain at the front.


Similar problem with the Tiger tanks in WWII. Every now and then the Germans develop brilliant weapons, like the panzerfaust, but I think the norm for them is to way over engineer things. Like the one MB auto I owned. The operators manual was incredibly complicated.


2 posted on 04/13/2025 5:12:53 AM PDT by rbg81 (=)
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To: hardspunned

That excerpt is a retelling of the story of German armaments and materiel in WW II.


3 posted on 04/13/2025 5:13:15 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom (All we want is the same deportation policy that Martha's Vineyard has. That's it.)
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To: hardspunned

Slightly different, but in the run-up to WWI one of the areas of contention between Germany and Great Britain was that Germany was trying to build a big, powerful navy. Britain didn’t like the competition and wanted Germany taken down a bit. WWI saw only a small number of serious naval engagements because both Britain and Germany had spent so much money on their precious little navies that neither country really wanted to risk their ships in battle. Jutland was the only serious battle that really resulted in the loss of ships. And neither country wanted to repeat that by using their ships again. Too expensive to risk.

European countries sometimes lose wars because they are afraid of losing the war.

The United States (once upon a time) and Russia are two countries that really go “all in” and take risks because they have no intention of losing.


5 posted on 04/13/2025 5:27:33 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: hardspunned

This is always the rule. Cheap and durable has the advantage in the dirt and rigor of war. Western militaries have been building a lot of fancy expensive prom dresses for the last 40 years.


6 posted on 04/13/2025 5:32:49 AM PDT by lurk (u)
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To: hardspunned
The Leopard 2A6 is too expensive and complex to maintain at the front.

Sounds like the Panther. Mechanical reliability coupled with a lack of spare parts.

10 posted on 04/13/2025 5:52:13 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: hardspunned
>The drones on both sides make any offensive move near suicidal.

Next tactical iteration has recently entered use and may change that. We've added a laser guidance package to (already existing in large numbers) 2.75" Hydra 70 rockets so they can shoot them down. Already compatible with multiple launcher options. Greatly increases the number of targets one aircraft can take out and greatly decreases the cost per shot to either not much more expensive or even less than the cost of the drone. The initial version APKWS has already been in use against Houthi drones, but requires keeping the target lazed until hit. Next version adds an infrared seeker which takes over once laser points out its target, increasing rate of fire without adding much to cost. It should be operational next year. So fight cheap drone swarms with cheap short range anti-drone smart rocket swarms launchable from most friendly planes, helicopters or ground.

16 posted on 04/13/2025 6:02:07 AM PDT by JohnBovenmyer (MAGA urge to purge the dirge of O'Biden's scourge and splurge)
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To: hardspunned

Bttt


18 posted on 04/13/2025 6:16:33 AM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s, you weren't really there)
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To: hardspunned

Sooner or later everything “breaks” in war.

The more basic a weapon is the longer it will last.

The more complex and technical weapons will fail soonest.


21 posted on 04/13/2025 6:34:42 AM PDT by Iron Munro (The Art Of Government: Taking Money From One Group And Giving It To Another - Voltaire)
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To: hardspunned

East German engineer spies did their jobs well when posted to the post war West German armaments industry.


23 posted on 04/13/2025 6:48:49 AM PDT by allendale
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To: hardspunned

Yep. Technology rules. It will be a long time and many brave young Americans will die before the battleship admirals and the calvary generals come to the realization that the era of naval surface combatants and land armored vehicles is over. Soon piloted aircraft will be obsolete.


24 posted on 04/13/2025 6:53:36 AM PDT by allendale
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To: hardspunned
The PzH 2000 howitzer, while advanced, is so technically fragile that its combat usefulness is in doubt.

German engineering tends to elevate performance at the expense of tolerance for abuse (Stihl chainsaws being the notable exception). Pushing the envelope beyond specifications usually results in catastrophic failure.

29 posted on 04/13/2025 7:22:50 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The tree of liberty needs a rope.)
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To: hardspunned

Funny...I’ve been reading from lots of Europeans (esp. Germans) that they don’t need the USA anymore...because they ‘have the tech’ and that they ‘just need to ramp up manufacturing’ which they claim is ‘easy to do’.

LOL.


30 posted on 04/13/2025 7:26:20 AM PDT by fuzzylogic (welfare state = sharing of poor moral choices among everybody)
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To: hardspunned

“The days of massed armored attack are over regardless of the quality of the equipment.”

Doubtful. What is more likely is anti drone tech. Also the success of the drones is due to the overall poor tactics of both sides. It’s hard to imagine a US force operating at the ponderous pace, degrading into WWI trenches, not gaining air supremacy etc. Drone operators would get annihilated.


42 posted on 04/13/2025 8:20:07 AM PDT by DesertRhino (2016 Star Wars, 2020 The Empire Strikes Back, 2025... RETURN OF THE JEDI...)
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To: hardspunned

Bkmk


53 posted on 04/13/2025 6:10:58 PM PDT by sauropod (Make sure Satan has to climb over a lot of Scripture to get to you. John MacArthur Ne supra crepidam)
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