Wow! Nuland basically admits that Ukraine-Russia peace deal, which was close to being finalized in spring 2022, “fell apart” because US, UK & other Western governments “advised” Zelensky government that it was not “good deal”

X ^ | Nuland, the harpy from hell

[adorno]

Yes it will be so much better to have sacrificed a generation of Ukrainian men and lose MORE territory in the end. That was the smart play here.

That doesn't sound so smart. What school of diplomacy and warfare and foreign affairs did you attend? Surrender and run school doesn't count.

[nonliberal]

RFK has said numerous times that there was a deal in place but Boris Johnson killed it.

[adorno]

Sometimes you make a strategic retreat to be able to survive to fight another day, and be far better prepared when it happens.

A strategic retreat with the Russians means a big win for them. And that retreat would lead to more requests for strategic retreats. A retreat is equivalent to a victory as far as the Russians are concerned, And that victory is always turned into more encouragement for aggression; they 've proven that time and time again. There are lessons to be learned from this and we haven't learned them very well.

[adorno]

Japan surrendered land to Russia and was doing quite well until recently. Same for Germany.

Doesn't sound like a good deal at all. Russia can't be dealt with. Is the same as negotiating with terrorists and that never goes well for the non-terrorists on the other side.

Sometimes it pays to cry 'Uncle'.

Germany surrendered to the U.S. and Europe and Russia. IN that case, Germany was the aggressor and they had no choice in the end but to surrender. Not quite the same situation, was it? Ukraine is a completely different situation, and Ukraine is not the aggressor.

[adorno]

The agreement did not explicitly call for the Ukraine to surrender significant territory

Any territory at all that is surrendered is significant to the Russian, who would for certain come back for more And, insistence on Ukraine not joining NATO or for NATO to keep far out from Russian borders, was/is also a non-starter. Russia an aggressive country needs to be watched closely and carefully.

[FLT-bird]

Is it smarter to have a whole generation die off and lose MORE territory?

That’s what’s happened.

[Jumper]

It is a Ukrainian thing. The Uke equavelant of our Constitution enshrines a purity of Ukrainian peoples; the Nazi superiority is evident.

MI6 liasion with Azov, Bandaras Nazis is why Ukraine started cleansing all vestages of Russian culture and language. In fact, every negotiation Ukraine ever engaged with Russia since 2012 has been to protect Russians from Uke prosecution. Russian intervention is a reflection of protection necessary for Russian peoples very survival at the hands of a murderous racist NAZI Ukraine.

[Jumper]

Gen Milley’s contribution yo Zeeper mythology, 3-days....

Nazi runes will leave Ukraine in ruins.

[Jumper]

Your grasp of history shows no actual understanding. Ukraine gave up nukes as a friendly Russian ally. It was many years later that Ukraine wad turned into a rabbidly festern bastion of feverant anti-Russian sentiment, by the Brits and US.

Had Ukraine actually implemented anything their wprthless signature was afixed, and by treaty treated the former residents of the USSR who were Russians equality instead of the GOU embarking on cultural edradication, and ethenic cleansing Russia would not had had to protect these people.

The US is more guilty than Ukraine because we put Nazis in charge of Ukraine.

[Jumper]

Is where the Uke Brides come from, Alabians?

Do Uke women see all their Men as 11-digit piano players and want real men instead of metrosexual nazis.

[Jumper]

It forced Ukraine to leverage both its assets and those whose brithright was a rich Ukraine in exchange for NATO second generation equipment. NATO in turn financed its much talked about war with China and the new equipment necessary.

[adorno]

Is it smarter to have a whole generation die off and lose MORE territory?

That’s what’s happened.

When has it ever been smarter to surrender and be subjugated and then suffer the consequences of ethnic and political cleansing, which Russia has done in the past, many times?

[Jumper]

I have read the Ike constitution. It calls for a pure Ukrainian people and culture. Only a NAZI would have set out to culturally and ethenically cleanse a country in the ways that even Germany was adverse. Ukraine only had to quit erasing Russian culture, killing Russians, and making them second class citizens.

Our CIA and MI6 essentially oversaw an aparthid Ukraine rise up as a new Nazi power.

[who_would_fardels_bear]

So everyone of the tribes and chiefdoms that fought against Roman conquest should have fought to the last man?

[Jumper]

All those western NGOs and the CIA busy executing a coup.

Then all the investment firms bought up anything of value from the coup leaders.

Ukraine didn’t borrow or sell to modernize their country, but set out create an armed forces 3x the size of Russia.

[adorno]

So everyone of the tribes and chiefdoms that fought against Roman conquest should have fought to the last man?

Should everyone that fought against the German attempt at an empire, have fought to the last man?

If the first tribe that fought against the Roman empire had been successful, the Roman empire might not have had a chance to build. As of today, we don't know if that would have been a good thing, but we have lived under the good the bad and the ugly that resulted, even centuries after it happened. Should we have to surrender to see if Russia would be a benevolent empire or an evil one? Better to be safe than sorry from the start.

[OldHarbor]

Zelinsky and his tribal oligarchs are running Ukraine into a death spiral.

A true Ukrainian patriot needs to knock the dwarf off and bring this slaughter an end.

[adorno]

Zelinsky and his tribal oligarchs are running Ukraine into a death spiral.

A true Ukrainian patriot needs to knock the dwarf off and bring this slaughter an end.

I think you meant to say:

Putin and his tribal oligarchs are running Russia into a death spiral.

A true Russian patriot needs to knock the dwarf off and bring this slaughter an end.

(BTW, Putin would not appreciate being called a 'dwarf', so be careful or he'll come after you. Have someone taste-test yur food and drink before you eat or drink.)

[OldHarbor]

So what about those graves chump.

I saw a video months ago, a Ukrainian that retrieves bodies from the battlefield , so the relatives have something to bury.

What a gruesome task. He found a body in a dugout, burned to a crisp. He said he hopes to find some sort of identification. The Uke government does not have time to do DNA samples , all too many of these families have nothing, no news of their loved ones, no identifiable bodies, they hope that perhaps they were captured rather than killed.

This is the horror of war, far removed from the salons of Brussels and the watering holes of the media elite.

Meanwhile, homosexuals like Lindsay Graham say “to the last Ukrainian,” as it fattens his wallet from kickbacks.

[who_would_fardels_bear]

We're not surrendering to Russia. Ukraine is. Ukraine is indefensible. A lot of the men left the country even before the war started to get out from under the thumb of the oligarchs supported by Moscow or NATO. A lot of them just left for better job opportunities.

If they thought Ukraine had a chance they would be flooding back into the country. However, their families are most likely telling them to stay the hell out of Ukraine.

So why is NATO persisting in fighting for a country that even its own people won't fight for?

Could it be that the US is about global hegemony when it should be about protecting its own interests and engaging with other countries economically and diplomatically rather than militarily?

When the Soviet Union and associated Warsaw Pact dissolved, NATO should have been dissolved as well. Think how much money we could have saved. How many lives would have been saved. If you believe that Russia wants to roll tanks to the English Channel, then you need to stop listening to the Neocon propaganda soon or else you'll be advocating for invading Cuba, Venezuela, Mexico, Haiti and every other country that isn't doing our bidding.