Posted on 08/31/2024 7:28:45 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
The Chinese People's Liberation Army Navy (yes, that's really what they call it) has been acting aggressively towards Philippine shipping and fishing vessels in the South China Sea for some time now. Because of this, the United States Navy is now reportedly "open to consultations" about the possibility of using American ships to escort Philippine shipping through the contested area.
What could possibly go wrong with that?
The U.S. military is open to consultations about escorting Philippine ships in the disputed South China Sea, the head of U.S. Indo-Pacific Command said Tuesday amid a spike in hostilities between Beijing and Manila in the disputed waters.
Adm. Samuel Paparo’s remarks, which he made in response to a question during a news conference in Manila with Philippine Armed Forces chief Gen. Romeo Brawner Jr., provided a glimpse of the mindset of one of the highest American military commanders outside the U.S. mainland on a prospective operation that would risk putting U.S. Navy ships in direct collisions with those of China.
Granted the Philippines is a U.S. ally, at a time when we can use all the friendly faces in the west Pacific that we can find. We have important bases in the Philippines, which occupy a strategic location. But our ally is butting heads with China rather a lot lately:
China and the Philippines accused each other of causing a collision between their two vessels Saturday in the latest flareup of tensions over disputed waters and maritime features in the South China Sea.
In a statement posted on social media, Chinese coast guard spokesperson Liu Dejun was quoted as saying that a Philippine ship maneuvered and “deliberately collided” with a Chinese coast guard ship “in an unprofessional and dangerous manner.”
Philippine officials in Manila said it was their coast guard ship, the BRP Teresa Magbanua, that was rammed thrice by the Chinese coast guard without any provocation, causing damage to the Philippine vessel.
This is the kind of incident that we are going to be escorting Philippine shipping through. What happens when a Chinese Coast Guard captain "accidentally" bumps into a U.S. Navy frigate or destroyer?
These are the kinds of flashpoints that can start wars. And, candidly, we aren't ready for a war in the West Pacific.
That's not to say that we shouldn't stand by an ally. We have treaty obligations to consider, namely the 1951 U.S.-Philippines Mutual Defense Treaty.
But there's just a lot that can go wrong when things are this tense. China, by which we can only mean the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), has been showing increasing bellicosity in the West Pacific for quite a while. Under Chairman Xi, it is facing a host of problems; a moribund economy that they have been trying to conceal, a population that is about to walk off a demographic cliff, and a real-estate bubble in the process of bursting; this is a recipe for national leaders becoming increasingly irrational.
China is not showing aggression solely towards the Philippines, either. Japan has been the target of China's bellicosity lately too.
Granted with many of these actions China is probably, as the saying goes, testing the waters. We do the same thing, calling it the exercise of the right of passage in international waters or airspace, as the case may be. Russia does it too; every seafaring nation does these things.
But for some reason, China is pushing harder on the Philippines, perhaps because that nation's military is, unlike Japan, rather modest - but surely China knows that the United States has a mutual defense treaty with the Philippines, which makes one wonder what, at the end of the day, they are really trying to accomplish.
And, of course, there is the visible weakness and incompetence of American leadership to consider. One wonders what General Douglas MacArthur might have said.
In this case f china !
It is not their Sea !
I admit, I see it differently. And I hate bullies, which the ChiComs clearly are.
I think we should give Filipino Government the room to change their minds, now that the ChiComs took the velvet glove off and they see what they are really all about.
That said, the whole thing is fraught with peril.
Small reminder.
The Philippines govt did not drive the US out of its bases at Clark and Subic Bay. That was done by the 2nd largest volcanic eruption of the 20th century — Mt. Pinatubo.
It buried Clark in ash and did much the same to Subic.
The price tag to undo all this was too high. The US was not ordered to leave. The US mostly chose to leave.
The SS United States ocean liner (990 ft) still holds the transatlantic crossing speed record, 3 days 10hrs 40min, that’s 38 knots, 44mph, from 1952.
She will be sunk as artificial reef soon off Destin FL
“The Philippines rejected America”
When?
“cozied up to the Chinese Communists”
Duterte tried but he got no domestic support.
The US and the Philippines currently have a new basing agreement that is vast in scope.
You sound like a Chinese troll.
With 30% of our total navy in the ME and NO carriers in the Pacific, I’d suggest treading lightly for time being.
All too close to China. All those mentioned are too close to China to serve as logistics and support bases. The current Philippine agreements are really for “fighting” bases, airfields (think of “Cactus” at Guadalcanal) or radar and missile posts. The US can use the whole country as a platform with which to shoot at China. But there is nowhere there safe from Chinese bombardment.
There has been talk of Darwin, Australia as a logistics hub.
The volcano took them, in 1991. In the days of the “peace dividend” and widespread base closings in the US, the US government had no reason to spend big bucks abroad to conduct massive repairs.
They would be useless today. Too close to China. They would just be massive targets. The whole country will be interdicted by Chinese missiles and fighter bombers. The current Phil-US basing agreement essentially opens the whole country for “fighting” posts, small airfields, hidden mobile missile batteries, radars. The Philippines is the front line, not a base.
“The US was not ordered to leave. The US mostly chose to leave.”
.
Not my recollection...
What was the reason(s) for the deteriorating relationship with Manila?
Maybe things are getting back to the way it used to be.
China wants to control/own the S. China Sea so it can retake Taiwan and spread its hegemony through the entire area.
US Navy Will Escort Philippine Ships in South China Sea
With about 17 ships in dry dock due to the lack of manpower good luck with that.
The democrats HATE the military it’s why they try to refuse money to them and you never hear them to ask people to join it.
Perhaps. One can hope...
As you also point out, there apparently was no political gain in it because the population did not like the idea, for what are now obvious reasons.
We have a similar dynamic in this country with the Obama/Biden overtures to the scummy Iranians, THAT is also indisputable, but here as well, there is no domestic political gain in doing so.
I am no expert on these things, but I do follow them much closer than most (though not all) people do because I do have a personal tie to the Philippines, so isn't as if I am pulling this out of thin air.
I want to see them choose what is best for their country, and building ties with Communists is not one of them.
Yes, a beautiful ship, designed for speed. Sad that she will meet her end that way, but...if it is that or being broken up, I would much rather have her sunk. I felt the same way about the USS America being used as a target platform. Much rather see that fate for her.
Modern super carriers with non-conventional power plants don’t have to worry about running out of fuel (in the same way the USS JFK, which I was on, have to keep in mind) so their hulls were designed for an optimal speed which was less than flank speed, so as to be able to sustain the best speed-fuel consumption combination possible.
I am told the Enterprise and Nimitz classes are not designed that way, so that limitation is less meaningful to them. (I am not a Naval architect, but I listen to people who are, so I hope and expect they will accurately know more than I do)
Wouldn’t it better if we, and every other nation preyed upon by these pieces of excrement just entirely obliterated them from existence? And then repeat the process with anyone else that tries to fill their void.
Research done. We are likely both right.
Clark AB was abandoned. Tons of ash everywhere. There were no negotiations even started.
Subic was a few miles farther from the volcano. It was buried and evacuated but less ash and dependents began to return. There was no immediate decision to abandon it as there was with Clark, which was actually larger.
Negotiations for lease extension broke down. Over money. It was an important geography and the PI wanted big numbers. The US said no. The numbers look small now (300M vs 800M) but then they were not small.
The PI prez tried to prolong any departure for negotiations to continue, but no progress was made. The prez apparently agreed on wording with the US for a document asking the US to leave. It took a while and negotiations could not make progress over that time.
Apparently in 2018 moves began to have a US Navy presence there in what is now a PI Navy base. It’s a deep water harbor and the whole base is the size of the country of Singapore. Very valuable. We probably should have paid up.
A revival of ‘SEATO’ in the works?
There already is a tacit alliance. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Philippines, Australia.
There is a great deal of defense collaboration going on.
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