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To: Regulator

Whomever is flying the aircraft is the PIC. As long as the FO is certificated to fly that model and type, he can be PIC when the Captain isn’t in control of the aircraft.


31 posted on 06/15/2024 11:22:20 AM PDT by Tom Tetroxide
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To: Tom Tetroxide

Well let me help educate you …

The word is certified not certificated. So you lose all credibility arguing rule nuance when you use such an obviously inept word.

Second there is only one PIC and he is the left seater. On any aircraft there is a buck stops here guy, he is the PIC. His alone is the decision making authority should there arise a conflict or an emergency. If the right seater is flying the leg and the left seater says “I have the airplane”. The next response is from the FO “you have the airplane”. If the PIC were the guy flying the damn plane, he would not or could not be COMMANDED to relinquish authority.

Got it?


37 posted on 06/15/2024 11:36:45 AM PDT by gas_dr (Conditions of Socratic debate: Intelligence, Candor, and Good Will)
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To: Tom Tetroxide
What you're talking about is the ability to log PIC time even though the air carrier designates you the SIC. You know that.

Logging pilot in command time part 121:

According to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulations, a pilot in command (PIC) in a Part 121 operation can log PIC time only if they are the sole manipulator of the controls for the flight and are responsible for the safety of the flight. This is stated in 14 CFR § 61.51(e).

In a Part 121 operation, the PIC is typically the captain or the pilot flying, while the second-in-command (SIC) is the first officer or the pilot monitoring. The SIC can log SIC time, but not PIC time, unless they are the sole manipulator of the controls for the flight and are responsible for the safety of the flight.

In the scenario where a SIC is the sole manipulator of the controls for a portion of the flight, they can log PIC time for that portion of the flight, as long as they meet the requirements of 14 CFR § 61.51(e). This is supported by the FAA’s legal interpretation in the 1999-Carpenter case, which states that a SIC can log PIC time if they are the sole manipulator of the controls for the flight.

However, it’s important to note that the generally accepted rule within Part 121 operations is that a designated SIC never logs PIC time, whether they are a first officer or a captain. This is because the SIC is not considered the PIC, and their role is to assist the PIC in the safe operation of the flight.

In summary, a SIC in a Part 121 operation can log PIC time only if they are the sole manipulator of the controls for the flight and are responsible for the safety of the flight, as stated in 14 CFR § 61.51(e).

It's gone both ways before and many people have never logged sole manipulator time as PIC when in fact they were the SIC, but PF at the time. Others have, and the Carpenter decision legitimized that. So maybe you did that, but for the purpose of hiring, for example, most carriers aren't going to regard it that way.

49 posted on 06/15/2024 11:54:27 AM PDT by Regulator (It's fraud, Jim)
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To: Tom Tetroxide

The pilot-in-command and the pilot flying are not the same thing. Also, there are two types of pilot in command. There is the pilot in command who is responsible for the flight and the person who can log the time as pilot in command. They aren’t necessarily the same person.

An example. I’m a flight instructor. I take a brand new student on a flight. I let them have the controls. They are the pilot flying. I am the pilot in command.


76 posted on 06/15/2024 6:26:27 PM PDT by CFIIIMEIATP737
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