Posted on 04/04/2024 4:46:20 AM PDT by marktwain
Carrying a gun for defensive purposes, with an empty chamber, is a controversial measure which proponents claim enhances safety. It is one of the reasons handguns appear to work better for self defense against bears than long guns. Long guns are more commonly carried with an empty chamber than are handguns. Handguns are more commonly carried for self defense than long guns. A recent bear attack illustrates the problem of carrying a long gun with an empty chamber. From Alaskapublic.org 2021:
“I remember looking over my shoulder, and I was saying something to them when I kind of heard the bushes crashing, and that’s when I looked up and looked over toward [where] the sound was coming from,” he said. “I couldn’t even really see it all at first because the brush was pretty thick, but about 20 feet away … this bear comes charging out of the brush at full speed.”
The victim had warning. He heard the bushes crashing. He had time to look in the direction the noise was coming from. It was almost certainly a large animal, a bear or a moose. If he had a loaded shotgun in his hands, he could have covered the area the sound was coming from, at the ready. The victim had a pre-concieved notion of how an attack might happen. The most common way in which bear maulings occur is with a surprise attack from short distances.
Coltharp said it happened so fast.
“And without any, you know, warning at all. Normally, when they’re defensive over their territory, they let you know,” he said. “They get all huffy and puffy and they start popping their jaw and making a lot of noise, and there was there was absolutely none of that going on.
(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...
There is absolutely no friggin’ way I would be in an area where grizzly bears roam without some serious stopping power loaded and with extra ammo. Why carry a gun and have to dig in pockets for some shells with a pissed off bear that doesn’t like you very much?
Carrying anywhere with an empty chamber is just stupid. It defeats the entire purpose of having a firearm to protect against an unexpected attack.
L
I never carry...anywhere...with an empty chamber. Deploy, acquire target, safety off, fire.
I lived in AK, always had a .44 mag revolver fully loaded on a chest rig and if hunting a rifle fully loaded, if going fishing in backcoutry a buddy with a 12g with slug, 000 buck staggered loads was nice.
People I was around weren’t carrying guns with empty chambers, that’s just city folk stupid.
Bears are just as unpredictable as people, and especially if it’s mating season............
I agree. Carrying a long gun without a cartridge in the chamber made sense when long guns could accidently go off if dropped, even with the safety on. However, modern long guns have improved their safeties. As far as I know, all modern designs are perfectly safe, when the safety is engaged. The only exceptions are when you are carrying a modern make of an old design, e.g. a model 94 lever action.
Same goes for using cracker shots. Best to have that chamber ready to fire lethal ammo when in bear country, they travel fast and more than likely any encounter is a surprise to both the bear and the hunter/hiker. Better be ready just in case that charge isn’t fake and the bear continues through and closes. I tended to try and avoid any surprises when hiking/fishing in Alaska by talking and singing, but I still saw my fair share of bears, but never had to shoot any. Took a good bear safety course where we went to the firing range and the instructor set the target system to move towards you all the while he is telling you to fire, fire, so you have a little pressure to put lead on target. Not exactly the same as a charging bear but it gives you and idea.
Hard on firing pin springs to carry chambered. Heat and cool temp changes under continuous load can weaken the spring. It only takes one second extra to chamber.
I like how one man was waving his hands around. If a bear is within a single digit number of yards, the only thing your arms should be doing is helping to support what firearm is about to dispatch lead down range, and bracing for recoil. The 21-foot danger zone popularized by Tueller applies to assailants with knives. Bears have 5 knives on each paw, really big teeth and are way faster than any human.
Only takes a second to lose your life....
>>I lived in AK, always had a .44 mag revolver fully loaded on a chest rig
Last year our AK ATV tour guide was equipped exactly like that. With a set of reloads in the chest rig.
I liked seeing that.
Will my bear spray not work against a charging bear? /s
Unfortunately, one second can be, and sometimes is, critical during an attack.
I do not recall instances of striker or hammer spring failure attributed to carrying loaded.
It may be possible, but is easily determined by firing (or attempting to fire) the firearm. As the vast majority of shooting is *not* in a self defense situation, the probability of detecting such a mechanical failure, before a self-defense shooting, is very high.
Carrying loaded for defense is generally a small proportion of the time. Most firearms would be stored unloaded when not in use. A metallurgist friend of mine told me with modern springs (after 1900) it is not a problem to store springs under load.
‘zactly !
For me, I just stay out of bear country, period. It has always worked, clear into old age.
I’ll take that chance rather than the realistically 3-5 seconds to chamber, along with a possible stress induced screw up.
“Only takes a second to lose your life....”
Do you think a bear is actually that fast? Is it that easy for a bear to sneak up that close to you without you knowing? You don’t think you will have more than one second to recognize a bear as a possible threat? Is everything that moves fast and can reach you within one second a bear? One second isn’t even long enough to know it is a bear for sure. How many years in a row are you going to carry a chambered firearm before you actually encounter a bear if ever...?
Please read #19 for some additional logic aside from the metallurgy risk. :)
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