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To: FLT-bird
FLT-bird quoting BJK: "I'm saying, first of all, South Carolina had no legally recognized "sovereign territory".

FLT-bird: "of course it did.
Read the 1783 Treaty of Paris.
The sovereignty of each state was recognized individually.
The sovereignty of each state has never been denied and is not denied to the present day by the SCOTUS.
So this is just another lie on your part."

Whatever the Treaty of Paris may or may not have recognized in 1783 did not last beyond the new US Constitution ratified in 1788.

If it were true that South Carolina in 1860 had "sovereign territorial waters" to defend, then you might expect at least a SC Coast Guard or Navy, but of course there was none.
South Carolina's territorial waters were the responsibility of Federal government, not South Carolina.

FLT-bird "Every time a union warship sailed into South Carolina's territorial waters without the consent of the lawfully elected government of South Carolina, it invaded South Carolina's sovereign territory."

But not one ever did on April 11, 1861.

FLT-bird: "Lincoln sent a heavily armed fleet as previously discussed."

Perhaps, but not one of those ships ever "invaded" South Carolina's "sovereign territorial waters".

175 posted on 02/17/2024 6:46:38 AM PST by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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To: BroJoeK
Whatever the Treaty of Paris may or may not have recognized in 1783 did not last beyond the new US Constitution ratified in 1788.

The Treaty of Paris recognized the sovereignty of each of the 13 colonies individually. The states did not surrender their sovereignty when they ratified the US Constitution. Once again, this is a lie on your part not supported by any of the writings at the time and not supported by numerous SCOTUS decisions right up to the present day which recognizes the sovereignty of the states.

If it were true that South Carolina in 1860 had "sovereign territorial waters" to defend, then you might expect at least a SC Coast Guard or Navy, but of course there was none.

South Carolina like the rest of the Confederate states had only recently seceded and had not had time to construct a navy yet.

South Carolina's territorial waters were the responsibility of Federal government, not South Carolina.

While South Carolina was in the US. Once it seceded that was no longer the case.

But not one ever did on April 11, 1861.

They had already invaded South Carolina's sovereign territory and were threatening to do so again with a heavily armed fleet of warships.

Perhaps, but not one of those ships ever "invaded" South Carolina's "sovereign territorial waters".

But others already had and this fleet of warships was sent specifically to invade South Carolina's territory as the South Carolinians well knew.

185 posted on 02/17/2024 9:48:58 AM PST by FLT-bird
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