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To: BroJoeK
Anybody can call somebody a "tyrant" because the word is meaningless without context. In this particular case, the context question is whether Lincoln was any more "tyrannical" than Jefferson Davis? Every account I've read says that, relative to populations, Jefferson Davis: Arrested as many Union loyalists as Lincoln arrested Copperhead Democrats. Forced just as many unwilling Southerners to serve in the Confederate army as the Union drafted for its armies. Confiscated as much Confederate property as Lincoln confiscated Union property. Imposed as many arbitrary laws on Confederates as Lincoln did on the Union. Micro-managed the war itself as his own Commander in Chief and Chief of Staff, issuing orders regardless of states rights or human rights. The "Solid South" was anything but "solid" in its votes for secession. Jefferson Davis used whatever forces necessary to compel obedience from pro-Union regions.

Lincoln arrested more people by all accounts. Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus - unconstitutionally. Lincoln signed an arrest warrant for the chief justice of the Supreme Court when the chief justice ruled in ex parte Merryman that this was unconstitutional. Lincoln stuffed ballot boxes. Lincoln shut down over 100 opposition newspapers by force. Lincoln arrested a sitting US Congressman. Lincoln banished a sitting US Senator. Lincoln censored all telegraph traffic. Lincoln presided over the only mass execution in American history. Lincoln also presided over the infamous union death camps including the infamous Camp Douglas which produced the largest mass grave in American history. Lincoln presided over the ethnic cleansing and genocide committed against native peoples in Minnesota. This was after he refused to honor the treaty the US Government had with the Santee Sioux and pay them the money they were owed so they could avoid starving. Lincoln also deliberately started the war without the consent of Congress.

He was by any measure, a bloodthirsty tyrant.

125 posted on 02/14/2024 8:18:25 AM PST by FLT-bird
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To: FLT-bird; cowboyusa; x; jmacusa; ProgressingAmerica; DiogenesLamp
FLT-bird: "Lincoln arrested more people by all accounts."

Relative to their population, Confederates arrested as many pro-Union Southerners as the Union arrested Copperhead Democrats.

FLT-bird: "Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus - unconstitutionally."

The CSA declared war on the USA on May 6, 1861 -- meaning any Union citizen who supported the Confederacy was then, by Constitutional definition, guilty of treason and subject to arrest & prosecution.

SCOTUS Chief Justice Crazy-Roger Taney:

Lincoln's constitutional authority to suspend habeas corpus was challenged in June 1861 by SCOTUS Chief Justice Crazy-Roger Taney, the same lunatic whose Dred Scot blatherings arguably caused the Civil War, but this time Taney babbled as a circuit court judge, not as SCOTUS, and so Lincoln properly ignored him.

The US Congress took up the issue in June 1861, but was blocked by Democrats from approving Lincoln's actions until December 1862.
The bill which finally passed in March 1863 authorized:

In the meantime, Jefferson Davis happily declared martial law and suspended Habeas Corpus in the Confederacy whenever he saw fit.

FLT-bird: "Lincoln signed an arrest warrant for the chief justice of the Supreme Court when the chief justice ruled in ex parte Merryman that this was unconstitutional."

Lincoln's body guard Ward Lamon, 25 years later:

Only claimed 25 years later by Lincoln's bodyguard, Ward Hill Lamon, confirmed by nobody else, ever.

FLT-bird: "Lincoln stuffed ballot boxes."

No, but FLT-bird has stuffed his own head full on nonsense.

FLT-bird: "Lincoln shut down over 100 opposition newspapers by force."

So often claimed by pro-Confederates, but actual records show only two Northern newspapers -- New York World and New York Journal of Commerce -- shut down by Lincoln's order in May 1864 after they published forged documents claiming the government was planning another draft.

Of course, many newspapers did open during the war, and some closed, for many reasons, including for having made their neighbors angry at their political opinions.
Claims that Lincoln was involved or responsible for many of these are not supported by facts.

FLT-bird: "Lincoln arrested a sitting US Congressman."

Democrat Copperhead Ohio Congressman Clement Vallandigham, arrested in May 1863, tried and convicted of, in effect, treason.
He was arrested on orders of Union Gen. Burnside, not Lincoln.

FLT-bird: "Lincoln banished a sitting US Senator."

CSA Gen. John C. Breckenridge:

Kentucky Senator John C. Breckenridge, in effect declared war against the United States, in October 1861, was then banished by the US Senate, not Lincoln.

Copperhead Democrat Ohio Congressman Clement Vallandigham:

Back to Congressman Vallandigham -- Burnside's military court sentenced Vallandingham to prison for the war's duration.
Lincoln's order released Vallandingham from jail and exiled him to the Confederacy.
On arrival in the Confederacy, Jefferson Davis ordered Vallandingham held under guard as an "alien enemy".
In June 1863 Vallandingham traveled to Richmond, VA and may or may not have recommended another Confederate invasion of Pennsylvania, sources differ.
He then traveled to Ontario, Canada, from where he was nominated by Democrats for Ohio governor, and lost in a landslide.

FLT-bird: "Lincoln censored all telegraph traffic."

Well, Union Secretary of War Edwin Stanton:

Telegraphic news dispatches were not such a problem in the Confederacy, whose telegraphs were less extensive and often out of order.

FLT-bird: "Lincoln presided over the only mass execution in American history."

After the 1862 Dakota War in Minnesota, Lincoln reviewed the death sentences of 303 Dakota warriors and decided:

In the end, 38 of the 303 were lawfully executed.

Of 18 famous Civil War illegal massacres:

  1. 7 committed by Confederates against Union troops
  2. 4 committed by Confederates against Unionist civilians
  3. 1 committed by Unionists against pro-Confederate civilians
  4. 1 committed by Union troops against Confederate troops
  5. 1 committed by Union troops against pro-Confederate civilians
  6. 1 (multiple) committed by Indians against Minnesota civilians.
  7. 1 committed by Union troops against Colorado Indians
  8. 2 committed by Indians against Confederates
FLT-bird: "Lincoln also presided over the infamous union death camps including the infamous Camp Douglas which produced the largest mass grave in American history. "

There were about 15 POW camps on each side, the most notorious of which were:

  1. CSA's Andersonville, Georgia, where 13,000 of 45,000 Union troops there died =29%

  2. USA's Camp Douglas, Chicago, where 4,000 of 26,000 Confederate troops there died = 15%.
FLT-bird: "Lincoln presided over the ethnic cleansing and genocide committed against native peoples in Minnesota."

The Minnestoa Dakota War of 1862 resulted in around 150 Indians killed out of a population counted at 2,369 in the 1860 census.
The number of whites killed was 471, of whom 358 were massacred civilians.
Today Native Americans are about 1.2% of Minnesota's population, the same as they were in 1860 and 1880.

FLT-bird: "This was after he refused to honor the treaty the US Government had with the Santee Sioux and pay them the money they were owed so they could avoid starving."

In 1862, the US government was two months behind in its payments to Dakotas, possibly due to corruption among US Indian agents, and so merchants refused to offer the Dakota Indians credit, for fear of US government non-payments because of the Civil War.
Lincoln himself was not involved in any of this.

FLT-bird: "Lincoln also deliberately started the war without the consent of Congress."

CSA Pres. Jefferson Davis:

Jefferson Davis deliberately started Civil War, at Ft. Sumter, without a declaration of war from the Confederate congress -- as noted and quoted many times on these threads.


144 posted on 02/15/2024 8:32:43 AM PST by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
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