Trump on Ukraine

Hot Air ^ | February 2, 2024 | David Strom

[Kazan]

So, this clip proves Trump wants to spend more money on the war in Ukraine? Only imbecile would believe that.

What Trump said is that Europe must match the amount the US has spent on Ukraine, which he estimates is $200 billion. Europe has only spent $20 billion.

There is NO chance that the Europeans will agree to spend another $180 billion on Ukraine. The Europeans could barely pass a $50 billion aid package over THREE years.

Victor Orban and others in the EU would never agree to letting the EU spend close to that amount.

Once again, you and your ilk LIE LIKE YOU BREATH. Zeepers and Neocons are every bit as big a liars as Biden and Democrats.

[Timber Rattler]

Except that he just changed his mind and backtracked. Can’t deny the video.

[cowboyusa]

Good, then don’t. No one cares. He is talking about the Europians paying.

[cowboyusa]

I see zots incoming.

[cowboyusa]

Yep.

[cowboyusa]

Now who is fervently supporting Trump. Don’t worry
Trp is talking about making the Europeans pay.

[Kazan]

Turmoil In Kiev Escalates As Ukraine Loses Ground To Russia

Ukraine confronts two deficits that cannot be remedied for at least one year — 1) lack of trained manpower and 2) lack of ammunition, air defense and reliable combat vehicles. Russia enjoys a clear tactical advantage on both counts.

Helmer succinctly describes Russia’s plan for the near term:

When the General Staff have been discussing with President Vladimir Putin the timing of the Russian offensive to force the Kiev regime into capitulation, it has been agreed, understood, and repeated that the strategic reserves of the Ukrainian forces should be destroyed first, together with the supply lines for the weapons and ammunition crossing the border from the US and the NATO allies.

This process, they also agreed, should take as long as required with least casualties on the Russian side, as determined by military intelligence. Also agreed and pre-conditional, there should be no repeat of the political intelligence failures of the Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) which precipitated the failed special forces operation known as the Battle of Antonov (Hostomel) Airport from February 24 to April 2, 2022.

[chickenlips]

Don’t be confused, he was talking about 24 metric hours. /s

But I have to admit this fiasco would have been far less likely had Trump been in office.

[Responsibility2nd]

Well, this was a bit unexpected, given what Trump supporters have been implying about what Trump’s Ukraine policy would be.

_________________________________________________

One of the most misleading sentences I’ve read in a long time.

The rest of the article goes on to support Trump in his policy to end the Ukraine war. I expected this from Trump and am glad to see his plans to dump the costs on Europe.

[Kazan]

How are you going to get the Russians and Putin to the negotiating table to end the war they started.

They didn't start it. WE did by fomenting a coup in 2014 that setoff a civil war in Ukraine. We turned Ukraine into a military threat to Russia. We teased NATO membership for Ukraine. We have repeatedly thwart Russian attempt at peace, specifically undermining the Minsk Accords and a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia that was nearly reached in March of 2022.

The false narrative you're spewing has pushed closer to a hot war with Russia, WW III and nuclear war than we ever were during the Cold War. AND, THAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. It's endangering us all.

There ZERO chance of Trump escalating the war in Ukraine. He will cut funding for it and force Ukraine to negotiate an end to it.

[chickenlips]

Trump absolutely promised to end the war in Ukraine within 24 hours by cutting for funding for it.
********************************************************
There was no absolute promise from Trump to end the war by cutting funding. He said he would cut funding only if Putin agreed to cooperate with a peace proposal.

[tennmountainman]

Why would the War Expand?
We read articles everyday posted by Zeepers showing that Russian equipment losses, ships losses, soldier deaths etc are mounting.

[Golden Eagle]

Ukraine can’t sustain the current frontline casualty levels and is about to transition to clandestine attacks within Russia. Russia will inevitably resort to clandestine attacks within NATO.

[Pete Dovgan]

Sorry, Trump just said otherwise.
We agree that the Obama administration provocation of Russia.
We agree this was avoidable.
Putin invaded, you don’t seem to understand that, and he did it twice.

Trump will end the war. In order for that to happen Putin has to see the way out.

[Kazan]

There is NO difference between those running the policy in Ukraine under the Obama and Biden regime. It's the same people -- Victoria Nuland specifically.

The attempt to provoke Russia into invading was far worse under Biden when this war began -- plans were made for Ukraine to go on the offensive in Donetsk and Lugansk and wipe out the ethnic Russian population.

Kamala Harris was out teasing NATO membership for Ukraine.

The Russians came to us in December of 2021 and asked for meeting with Biden to discuss their security concerns in an effort to prevent the present war.

Russia had far better reasons to invade Ukraine than we did in either Iraq war. Ukraine was about to commit genocide against the ethnic Russian population and Ukraine most certainly was a military threat, more so if Harris' threat had been followed through on.

[Pete Dovgan]

Your point about the Biden and Obama administrations is how I see it. They started things where they didn’t need to. The question is, how does the killing stop now? People are dead, arsenals are depleted, economies destroyed. How do you bring both parties to negotiate? When do they stop throwing away people? How do you return borders that everyone can accept?

[gleeaikin]

I don’t know if it is Trump influence or other forces, but EU has just ponied up to spending more than $50 billion on Ukraine defense. EVen Putin’s buddy Orban has decided to go along with this major commitment. Apparently he was told EU or Putin, make your choice. Does this mean he now believes Putin is going to fail?

[BroJoeK]

Kazan: "They didn't start it.
WE did by fomenting a coup in 2014 that setoff a civil war in Ukraine.
We turned Ukraine into a military threat to Russia.
We teased NATO membership for Ukraine. "

Pete Dovgan: "We agree that the Obama administration provocation of Russia.
We agree this was avoidable."

If you agree to Kazan's narrative, then you are agreeing to insane nonsense, pure Russian propaganda mainlined from the information sewer pipes of the Kremlin's Ministry for Agitation and Propaganda.

In short, it's total BS.

Putin & Stooge Yanukovych in 2006:

Here's the truth: first of all, NATO membership had nothing to do with Ukraine's 2014 Maidan Revolution and Putin's 2014 invasions of Crimea and the Donbas.
Vlad the Invader's pretexts then were strictly Ukraine's cozy relations with the European Union and Ukraine's parliament vote, by 328 to ZERO, to remove Putin's traitorous stooge Yanukovych from office.

Putin then, and Putin's propaganda repeaters like Kazan ever since, called that vote a "coup" and made it his pretext to invade and annex Crimea.

Second of all, there was never a "civil war" in Ukraine, there was only ever a Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2014, annexation of Crimea and war against Ukraine in the Donbas.

Third, how quickly we've shoved it down our collective memory hole, but for many years Russia itself had great relations with NATO and was invited on a pathway to join NATO.
Had Vlad the Invader stayed on that path, NATO membership for Russia would have 100% eliminated Russia's security concerns with Europe.
But Putin chose a different path, to make NATO his enemy, not ally, and then began insisting that Russia's neighboring countries also could not join NATO.

Of course, by then it was too late because every country which could join NATO had already joined and every other country -- like Ukraine and Georgia -- which didn't qualify were trying desperately meet NATO's standards for membership.

Bottom line: it's all about Vlad the Invader.
Everything else is pure Russian propaganda nonsense.

Color code: blue = NATO members; light blue = wannabes; orange, yellow & green = "partners" categories; red & purple = friendly countries.
Kazan: "We have repeatedly thwart Russian attempt at peace, specifically undermining the Minsk Accords and a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia that was nearly reached in March of 2022."

Ukrainians agreed to many things at Minsk and accomplished most of them.
Putin only agreed to one thing at Minsk, and he never did that one thing, all the while claiming it was Ukrainians who violated the agreement.

As for agreements negotiated in early 2022, Vlad the Invader himself threw out proposals which did not grant Russia enough Ukrainian territories to satisfy his land-lusts.
The settlement proposal Vlad did finally agree to, Ukrainians rejected based on Western Allies promises of military support, "for as long as it takes".

The decision for war or peace-terms has always been 100% strictly up to Ukrainians.
If they want to keep fighting, we'll support them.
If or when they decide to sue for peace on Vlad the Invader's terms, we will reluctantly go along with that.

And I just checked the weather report for h*ll, and there is not expected to be a cold day there any time in the foreseeable future.
So, I do not expect Ukrainians to be asking for Vlad's peace terms anytime soon.

"Russkiy Mir"

[BroJoeK]

redfreedom: "Is the Ukraine war our war? No, hell no."

1994 Budapest -- Clinton, Yeltsin & Kravchuk

Yes, it is, since the 1994 Budapest Memorandum in which the US and UK promised to support Ukraine's sovereignty in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nukes to Russia.
Unfortunately, the Budapest Agreement is not iron-clad since, as Slick Willy said in another context,

"It depends on what the meaning of 'is' is."

But it's not just a scrap of paper, either, so we do have an obligation to support Ukraine against Russian invasions.

redfreedom: "Should we be supporting Uke Nazi’s?
No, absolutely not."

Those words are insane nonsense -- 100% pure Russian propaganda directly from the information sewer pipes of the Kremlin's Ministry for Agitation and Propaganda.
The whole idea of "Ukrainian Nazis" is complete & utter BS.
No sane person should be repeating it.

redfreedom: "But, is Russia a potential enemy?
That is a probability.
The probability is that the globalists have made them an enemy, and like any cornered rat will come out fighting."

And yet again with the Russian propaganda nonsense?
The truth is that Vlad the Invader's threats and invasions against his neighbors have nothing to do with "globalists" or Russia feeling like a "cornered rat"
It's the opposite -- it's Vlad the Invader reestablishing his vision of "Russkiy Mir", the Old Tsarist & Soviet Empires, by threatening and invading his neighbors, including:

Russian threats to neighbors since 1991:

1. Azerbaijan (1990–1994);[1][2]
2. Moldova (1992–present)
3. Georgia (2004–present)
4. Lithuania (2006)
5. Estonia (2006–2007)
6. Belarus (2007)
7. Syria (2015–present)
8. Turkey (2015–2016)
9. Kazakhstan (2021–2022)[3] and
10. Armenia (2022) [4] amongst others.[5]

redfreedom: "I’m thinking Trump has deeper insight on what’s going on and simply would not just pull the plug on the Uke’s.
He realizes this is a Euro war and those pinheads need to pony up and pay their fair share.
The Afghan pullout was a complete disaster.
I do not think Trump wants to be in the same boat the Biden regime is on regarding ending a war."

All that is perfectly fine.
I agree that Trump will not simply walk away from Ukraine, the way Biden skedaddled disgracefully from Afghanistan.
Whether Trump can make a peace-deal in Ukraine is as yet unknown.

redfreedom: "And the Uke’s need to be purged of their Nazi elements."

And yet again with the Russian BS propaganda?
Seriously, where does this nonsense come from?

[Pete Dovgan]

If you agree to Kazan’s narrative, then you are agreeing to insane nonsense, pure Russian propaganda mainlined from the information sewer pipes of the Kremlin’s Ministry for Agitation and Propaganda.

In my opinion, the Obama administration and its efforts with the CIA, were directly responsible for the 2014 ‘counter revolution’. Further, the Obama administration and State department recycling of tax payer money, with Soros sometimes as a middleman, into trusts for political family members and ‘jobs’ and ‘side jobs’ for US politicians prevented normal relationships between Russia and Ukraine. That’s not someone’s narrative, it just is.

Does that make it the US and NATO fault that Putin invades everyone trying to rebuild a Soviet Empire? Putin did the invasion twice in Ukraine and several other neighboring nations. Putin has to be accountable for that.

The incident werein Trump was impeached for asking about Biden (and therefore other US politicians families) profiting from Ukraine was a wake up call for intelligent Americans. NSA and CIA operatives came out of the woodwork to destroy a POTUS for pointing it out. The intelligence community wielded its sword against the highest elected official in the US, to maintain the money in Ukraine via American Taxpayers backs. Then, they used taxpayer money to censur, terrorize, marginalize, lie and mislead, and basically influence the 2020 election to give us Joe Biden.

If you want to see people stop killing each other, then two things need to happen. First, Russia and Putin need to come to terms with illegal invasions of neighbors. The second, and equally important, is the United States needs to rethink its policies of destabilizing other nations, especially by those who are profiteering by it.

I believe that this war didn’t need to happen, that it’s fundamentally about money, and it’s stupid. Obama, Soros, and Putin are to blame the US intelligence services being the tool of Soros and Obama.

So how do you end the war? That’s the question of importance.