Trump on Ukraine

Hot Air ^ | February 2, 2024 | David Strom

[BroJoeK]

Robert DeLong: "That confirms that my claim that the debt to GDP was not 100+% in WWII, so you proved my point."

I still don't understand why you are confused about this:

1. In 1908, under Teddy Roosevelt, US debt to GDP ratio was under 10%.
2. In 1920, after the First World War, debt/GDP rose to 30%
3. By 1929, under Republican administrations it fell to 16%
4. By 1940, under FDR's New Deal, it rose to 50%
5. By 1945, at the end of the Second World War it stood at 116%

6. Today, US debt/GDP is around 121%.

Are you still confused about this?

Robert DeLong: "Because our GDP in 2021 was $19,427 (19.4 trillion) while our debt was $28,428 (28.4 trillion) which is almost 150% or three time worse than WWII."

Ah, no... 2021 GDP was $23.3 trillion, national debt was ~$28.4 trillion or 124% of GDP, which is roughly where it still is today and also roughly what it was in 1945.

Robert DeLong: "We also were not many generations into SSI, we were also not paying for an invasion of our country, and we also were not paying out SSI benefits to people who never paid a dime for those benefits to people who did not immigrate to this nation legally."

Nearly all of that will end when Trump-Republicans take charge in 2025, and such changes will begin to restore our Federal budget to balanced, along with reducing inflation and increasing American economic independence from globalism.

Robert DeLong: "The population of this nation was 1/3 of the current population, or perhaps even less.
The nation was more homogenous as well."

The world's population in 1940 was less than 1/3 of today's and the US percent of world's population is roughly the same today as it was in 1940.

1937 KKK lynchings:

Your word "homogenous" is a complete artifice, lacking objective meaning.
For example, today we count "white" as all one race, but in 1940 "white" was divided up into many sub-groups, some of whom hated each other because of differences we today consider trivial -- Protestant vs. Catholic, Northern vs. Southern European, early settlers vs. recent immigrants, English vs Scotts vs Irish vs German vs Dutch vs Scandinavian vs Italian vs Polish vs etc., etc.
Only in hindsight, looking back does it seem like we were more "homogenous", when at the time we were just as divided as we are today, if not, arguably considerably more so.

Robert DeLong: "Approximately 125,000 Germans, most of them Jewish, immigrated to the United States between 1933 and 1945.
In the 3 years of the Biden Usurpation of the Presidency, more than 10 million people have invaded our nation..."

There is no doubt that Democrats have weaponized illegal immigration in order to improve their chances of dominating the country politically and their projected 10 million illegals under four years of Biden are unprecedented.
So, I do expect corrective actions under a Trump-Republican administration to be both difficult and costly.

All that said, overall the percentage of US foreign borns is roughly today what it was from 1870 to 1910.

Robert DeLong: "But the real kicker Joe, is that you are pouring more debt burdens upon American children, which are this nation's future, and you seem to be perfectly content in doing so.
You should be ashamed of yourself."

Now you are just being silly, since nobody here is defending our Democrats' insane national debt or illegal immigration policies.

The point I'm making here is that neither are historically unprecedented, we've experienced as bad, or worse, before and always recovered over time, given sane Republican policies.
I'm saying, once we elect Trump-Republicans, economic recovery will happen again, some of it very, very quickly.

Robert DeLong: "Like I keep telling you , this nation is the lynchpin for freedoms & rights, not Ukraine.
When we fall, the world falls into the hands of tyrants."

The Western World Order (aka "pax Americana") will begin to fall if we turn over Ukraine into the hands of the invading tyrant.
Indeed, nothing good will happen -- zero, zip, nada that's good -- if we turn Ukraine over to the tender mercies of Vlad the Invader.
Only bad will come from losing Ukraine, regardless of how many Republicans we elect in November 2024.

That's why it's a 100% false choice being presented by our pro-Russians here -- that we can only defeat our Democrats in November's election if we turn Ukraine over to Vlad the Invader's suicidal Meat Wave assaulters.

Robert DeLong: "Oh, BTW, Russia never signed anything with Germany.
The USSR signed the non-aggression agreement.
That was a little test for you.
You failed just as miserably as you always do.
Russia was overrun by the communists, not that Tsar Russia was much better, but it was better."

Now you really are just babbling nonsense.
Now, you want us to believe that poor, innocent, democratic, peaceful, wouldn't-hurt-a-soul RUSSIA is not responsible for the actions of the Old Soviet Uncle Joe Stalin??!

At the same time, you want us to accept that RUSSIA has a right to invade and conquer Ukraine, or any other country the Old Soviets' Vlad the Invader might set his sights on??!

So I ask again, seriously, what in the world is wrong with you, FRiend?

Robert DeLong: "Yep, NATO was formed to be a check upon the USSR, which imploded 30 years ago.
So, why is there still a NATO?
The threat is in the dustbin of history.
But if Russia is a threat it's because we treat Russia as the USSR, instead of integrating them into the western society nations.
Why is that? "

1994 Budapest Memornadum = US, Russia, Ukraine

And this is a key point that your pro-Russian indoctrination prevents you from ever grasping -- Old Soviet Union Communist KGB LtCol Vlad the Invader is every bit the threat today that Old Uncle Joe Stalin ever was against countries of the Old Tsarist Russian Empire.

You refuse to remember that 1990s' Russia was invited to join NATO, and did sign up as a NATO Partner on a path towards membership, and that good relations continued well into Vlad's dictatorship in the 2000s.
Good NATO-Russia relations only really ended when Vlad the Invader became a very obvious threat to his neighbors in 2008, when he invaded Georgia.

Then NATO finally sat up and took notice that Russia is not our friend, and may well become our enemy.

Robert DeLong: "Russia may have been involved in Georgia before Ukraine & Ukraine now, but Georgia president actually asked Russia to come in a quell a rebellion.
But we have certain been the cause of concern for Russia.
By the fact that we are engaged in a proxy war with Russia proves that their perception of hostility towards them are justified."

2005 = US and Georgia presidents, Tbilisi, Georgia

And the lies just keep on coming, don't they?
In fact, in 2008 Georgia never invited the Russian army to invade Georgia.
Instead, in 2003 Georgia formally asked to join NATO and was promised in early 2008 by NATO that Georgia will eventually become a member.

Regardless, there has never been any doubt among Russia's neighbors about how aggressive, brutal and oppressive Russia can be when it suspects weakness among Russia's neighbors.

Robert DeLong: "Just as you fail to see the difference between the communist controlled USSR & the democratically elected Russian leaders are quite different, you also fail to see how different this nation is with the before & after of the 2020 election theft."

Russia's "democracy" is a sham-show and Vlad the Invader is in no way legitimately elected.
He is, and has been for over 20 years, Russia's dictator -- aggressive, brutal, serially murderous, oppressive and even genocidal toward non-Russian nationalities within Russia.

[MeganC]

“Today, US debt/GDP is around 121%.”

It’s actually much higher because that’s just Federal debt. Including state, municipal, school district, and special district debt I’ve seen estimates as high as +700% of GDP.

[Robert DeLong]

I understand just fine that your comments & facts are hogwash and they do not match reality:

Fed’s Powell Admits Bidenomics Is Not Remotely Sustainable Or Fixable! Too Much Debt And Spending, Too Little Growth (GDP Growth Higher Than Debt Growth In Only 1 Quarter Under “Brainless Joe”)

Perhaps it runs with the name Joe?

Like I said last time, this is my end of "debating" with you. I meant it last time, and I mean it again. I will no longer carry on this "discussion" with you because it's fruitless to do so.

[BroJoeK]

Robert DeLong: "I understand just fine that your comments & facts are hogwash and they do not match reality:"

That can only mean that you have studiously ignored both reality and my arguments, preferring to stick with your own pro-Russian talking points.

Sure, I "get" it.

Robert DeLong: "Perhaps it runs with the name Joe?"

Meaning you have neither facts nor logic to support your opinions, so, naturally, you must start in with the ad hominem attacks.

I "get" it.

[BroJoeK]

MeganC: "It’s actually much higher because that’s just Federal debt.
Including state, municipal, school district, and special district debt I’ve seen estimates as high as +700% of GDP."

Sure, I understand your point, there's way too much debt everywhere within our economy, but your figure of 700% may include future obligations, not just current debts.
Still, those are very worrisome if adequate adjustments are not made within reasonable time periods.

The long-term costs of failure to make such necessary adjustments include ever increasing inflation.

Here's one way to look at it -- if you own a home, it's possible that your mortgage total is larger than your family's annual income, maybe three times your income or more, but so long as your property maintains its market value and you earn enough to make your monthly payments, your family is relatively secure, despite your high debt load.

Then consider the USA as a whole -- according to the most recent numbers I can find, our total asset value is around $400 trillion (with a "t") our debts total circa $200 trillion, and our annual income -- GDP -- is around $30 trillion.
At relatively low interest rates, payments on $200 trillion in debts could total $5 trillion out of our $30 trillion in GDP income. But if government insanity drives interest rates to double, then we are looking at $10 trillion in annual interest payments, which seems like a lot, and could become very destructive.

And just like your home mortgage is not a problem so long as you keep your good-paying job, the US debts -- properly managed -- are also not necessarily a problem so long as our economy continues to prosper and grow rapidly.
But if you lose your job, or the US economy falters, then debts can become a huge problem, both individually and collectively.

Bottom line: debts must be carefully managed, something Democrats are now inherently incapable of even comprehending, much less doing.

[Robert DeLong]

I do not care about Russia, you flaming idiot. I care about this nation which is being invaded on a much larger scale than Ukraine is being invaded. Ukraine is not the lynchpin for freedom & human rights. The US is, and it currently is in control of communists, but you fail to see that reality. You do not get that fact at all.

I even sent you a link that the Fed Chairman states that the debt is rising, while the GDP is declining. You don't realize that we are headed for a financial meltdown, just like the USSR did.

It is you that ignores reality, because you have been totally brainwashed to believe that Russia is the equivalent of the USSR, and that we must destroy ourselves to save Ukraine.

We are not in the position to help save the world on many levels, besides just the financial aspect, but like Sgt. Schultz, you see nothing.

Perhaps you see it all, but you hate this nation, because you sure act like a leftist, by blaming me for your shortcomings, or you are, as I have repeatedly said, just a useful idiot.

Whatever the truth is, this discussion is over.

[McGruff]

Missing is that Trump promised he would end the Ukraine war in 24 hours.

[BroJoeK]

Robert DeLong: "I do not care about Russia, you flaming idiot."

Says our "flaming idiot", who absolutely positively refuses to consider actual facts or logical arguments, but just keeps blasting away with endless pro-Russian nonsense.

Robert DeLong: "I care about this nation which is being invaded on a much larger scale than Ukraine is being invaded. "

Only a literal raving-idiot would even hyperbolically equate illegal migrants to the USA with Vlad the Invader's "Special Military Operations" to conquer Ukraine.

World map by democracy Index

Robert DeLong: "Ukraine is not the lynchpin for freedom & human rights."

Ukraine is just one battlefield, or one theater of operations, in Cold War II between the New Axis of Evil Dictatorships and Western-style democracies.
Israel and Taiwan are two other theaters, as are several others on a list of international hot-spots.
The loss of any one battle will make the next battle that much more difficult for us to fight and win.

Robert DeLong: "The US is, and it currently is in control of communists, but you fail to see that reality.
You do not get that fact at all."

Recent forecast of Trump November election victory:

What I "get" is that you are speaking hyperbolically for dramatic effect and that you may not comprehend the difference between such hyperbole and actual reality.

Here's the truth of this matter: the USA is today in the control of our Democrats -- and whether Democrats are worse than actual communists is, at least, debatable.
But one key difference is that we still have the opportunity, given honest elections, to vote Democrats out of power in November.
Today almost every new poll says Donald Trump-led Republicans are set for a November trifecta, to sweep the Presidency and both Houses of Congress.
If that happens, then well over half of our most aggravating problems will end immediately, such as our Southern Border.

And many other problems will immediately begin to heal under good political leadership.
Some problems will require difficult long-term adjustments.

And none of this has anything to do with Ukraine -- we can't save our domestic politics by sacrificing Ukraine to Vlad the Invader's Meat Wave assaulters.
The only thing giving up Ukraine will do is make our next war against the Axis of Evil Dictators that much more difficult and bloody, and that much more likely to be lost as well.

Robert DeLong: "I even sent you a link that the Fed Chairman states that the debt is rising, while the GDP is declining.
You don't realize that we are headed for a financial meltdown, just like the USSR did."

US GDP growth since WWII, notice recessions shaded gray:

We already had a financial meltdown in 2008, and it was a rough go for the country, but we adjusted & recovered, it was not the end of the world.

The current 2024 forecast of US GDP is growth from $27 trillion last year to $28 trillion this year.
Our national debt is also forecast to grow by at least $1 trillion, so our debt-to-GDP ratio will remain in the 124% range.
That is way too high, and should be put on a path of reductions, but we might again notice that over 40% of US national debt is money the Federal government, in effect, owes itself.
Our ratio of Federal debt to outside debt-holders is "only" 70% of GDP.
That's still too high, but if properly managed and gradually reduced, it's not life threatening, any more that your personal house mortgage is, so long as you can make your monthly payments.

Robert DeLong: "It is you that ignores reality, because you have been totally brainwashed to believe that Russia is the equivalent of the USSR, and that we must destroy ourselves to save Ukraine."

Sorry, FRiend, but it's you who've blinded yourself to the reality that Russia's Vlad the Invader is not just "equivalent of the USSR", rather, Vlad IS the Old Soviet Union KGB LtCol who represents in himself the Old Soviet and Tsarist Empires' "Russkiy Mir" mythical, mystical, magical, murderous, monstrous "mother Russia", that has always been the expanding Russian Empire.

As for allegedly "destroying ourselves", that's pure nonsense, since we only destroy ourselves if we walk away and abandon our friends in Ukraine to the mercies of Vlad the Invader's "Ruskiiy Mir" warriors.

Robert DeLong: "We are not in the position to help save the world on many levels, besides just the financial aspect, but like Sgt. Schultz, you see nothing."

Sorry, FRiend, but it's you who've blinded yourself to the basic world-realities of

1. The New Axis of Evil Expanding Empires' Cold War II, and
2. The US has almost never in the past 250 years opposed evil empires by ourselves.

We've never stood alone, we've always worked with our willing allies to stand strong together.
In the First World War we were the junior partners, since WWII we've been senior partners, but always in alliances with others, never standing alone.

Robert DeLong: "Perhaps you see it all, but you hate this nation, because you sure act like a leftist, by blaming me for your shortcomings, or you are, as I have repeatedly said, just a useful idiot."

Here you're just babbling nonsense, your words utterly divorced from reality.
In fact, you are the "leftist" here, the 1960s peacenik flower-children come back as faux-conservatives to lecture us, claiming suddenly that everybody else is a "neo-con", when it's you guys who are the old 1960s' pro-Russian "hell no, we won't go" Democrats, posers and liars.

Sad.

[Justa]

Bump for #128. Great post.

As for Putinistas:

They are more concerned with expanding Russia’s borders than defending America’s.

[PIF]

when it’s you guys who are the old 1960s’ pro-Russian “hell no, we won’t go” Democrats, posers and liars.

—
and before that they were the “Better Red Than Dead” crowd.

[gleeaikin]

“...the USA is today in the control of our Democrats — and whether Democrats are worse than actual communists is, at least, debatable.
But one key difference is that we still have the opportunity, given honest elections, to vote Democrats out of power in November.
Today almost every new poll says Donald Trump-led Republicans are set for a November trifecta, to sweep the Presidency and both Houses of Congress.
If that happens, then well over half of our most aggravating problems will end immediately, such as our Southern Border.”

Tonight CNN and others report a solid victory for the Democrat candidate to replace Republican representative Santos in Long Island, in what is considered a Republican district. Thus Republicans have one less vote to block the Ukraine/Israel/Taiwan bill for their support. Apparently there are 3 other Republican vacancies in the House that still need filling. Also Trump issued comments on his truth social site ripping the female Republican contender for her political failure in most uncomplementary terms.

It will be interesting to see the fall-out over these latest developments and their possible effect on the U/I/T bill status and future. There are already mixed feelings being expressed by Republicans in the House over negative reactions to the compromise Border Bill that some Republicans say is better than what we have now.

[Grampa Dave]

Reality Bump instead of anti Trump B$!