Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

To: FLT-bird; x; DiogenesLamp
FLT-bird: "The South very much did get a raw deal economically."

So let's talk about the first tariff -- the Tariff of 1789:

Please notice the key points here:
  1. Proposed by Southern Congressman (future president, "Father of the Constitution") James Madison.
  2. Passed by a Congress with 8 slave-states (including NY & NJ), 5 (more or less) free-states.
  3. Signed by Southern Pres. Washington.
  4. Included lesser duties in US own ships, which in 1789 were just as likely to be Southern owned & manned as Northern.
And there's more:

Let's notice that the highest tariff rates (50%) were put on Southern products of:
  1. Ships
  2. Cordage (hemp)
  3. tobacco
  4. indigo
Finally, there's this: In Madison's mind, the South was the wealthiest and so should pay the highest share of import duties.
However, it's not clear to me how Southern exports -- i.e., tobacco, hemp & indigo -- were any less protected than Northern steel.

FLT-bird: "At first it was vastly richer and was willing to subsidize things like restrictions on shipping to only domestic (ie Northern) shipping to maintain that industry for national security."

It's not true that all shipping in 1789 was Northern owned or operated.
In fact, both Charleston, SC, and Baltimore, MD, were major ship builders.
So was New Orleans at the time of the Louisiana Purchase in 1803.

FLT-bird: "It was also willing to subsidize some mining and manufacturing (again overwhelmingly in the North) as well as infrastructure."

US iron & steel production in 1789 was a big deal, estimated as equal to Britain's, third in the world behind Sweden and Russia. So American steel was protected by tariffs as high as the highest protections on Southern exports like tobacco, hemp and indigo.

FLT-bird: "But time went on the North only ever clamored for even more money.
They tariff of abominations was hugely harmful.
Even the "lower" tariff you refer to was 17%.
That was considerably higher than what the South wanted.
The Confederate Constitution would have limited tariffs to 10% maximum."

The 1828 "Tariff of Abominations" was proposed or supported by the following Southerners:

  1. VP John C Calhoun from SC
  2. Sec. of State Henry Clay from KY
  3. Andrew Jackson from TN
  4. House representatives from TN and KY
The "Tariff of Abominations" was opposed by other Southerners and also by a majority New Englanders.

After passage, the 1828 Tariff of Abominations caused South Carolinians to threaten nullification and secession, to which now Pres. Andrew Jackson famously responded:

Jackson did support some reductions in tariffs, but kept them higher, with a result that by 1837 Federal revenues were nearly double those of 1828 and Pres. Jackson used the extra money to pay off the national debt, the only US president ever to do so.

Finally, the Confederate constitution says nothing about a 10% maximum tariff rate, though it does attempt to eliminate protectionist tariffs.
In February 1860 Confederates adopted basically the old 15% US tariff from 1857 (passed by Democrats), with some minor changes.
It was replaced by the second Confederate tariff on August 31, 1861.

Confederates also attempted an export tariff on cotton!! On May 21, 1861, two weeks after they formally declared war, Confederates set new tariff rates.
Those tariffs took effect on August 31, 1861 and ranged from 25% on some items down to 5% or duty free on others. Confederate tariffs are claimed to "average" 10%, but that is based on assumptions about what volumes & mixes of rates would actually be paid.

In reality, by the time the new rates went into effect, the Union blockade had nearly eliminated Confederate dutiable imports.

US tariff rates, both overall and dutiable averages from 1821 to 2016:

267 posted on 12/20/2023 6:25:05 AM PST by BroJoeK (future DDG 134 -- we remember)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 253 | View Replies ]


To: BroJoeK
blah blah blah Proposed by Southern Congressman (future president, "Father of the Constitution") James Madison. Passed by a Congress with 8 slave-states (including NY & NJ), 5 (more or less) free-states. Signed by Southern Pres. Washington.

Yes, I've said that in the early years Southern political leaders agreed to protectionist measures and what amounted to wealth transfers to ensure a domestic shipping industry and some mining and manufacturing. There was no dispute about this.

"James Madison modified the terms of the tariff to balance sectional conflicts[4] but conceded that articles subject to high duties "were pretty generally taxed for the benefit of the manufacturing part of the northern community."[5] He acknowledged the South, the main wealth-producing part of the nation, would inevitably "shoulder a disproportionate share of the financial burden involved in the transforming the United States into a commercial, manufacturing, and maritime power."[6]" In Madison's mind, the South was the wealthiest and so should pay the highest share of import duties. However, it's not clear to me how Southern exports -- i.e., tobacco, hemp & indigo -- were any less protected than Northern steel.

Exports weren't protected at all. Domestic manufacturing was protected....and as this also shows, Madison knew full well that the effect would be to transfer wealth from the South to the North just as I said it did.

It's not true that all shipping in 1789 was Northern owned or operated. In fact, both Charleston, SC, and Baltimore, MD, were major ship builders. So was New Orleans at the time of the Louisiana Purchase in 1803.,/p>

Its not true that I said "all". Fishing and shipbuilding were more of a Northern industry than a Southern one from before the War of Independence though.

US iron & steel production in 1789 was a big deal, estimated as equal to Britain's, third in the world behind Sweden and Russia. So American steel was protected by tariffs as high as the highest protections on Southern exports like tobacco, hemp and indigo.

Except there were no protections for for exports. There were only tariffs on imports. These tariffs protected Northern Industries overwhelmingly.

The 1828 "Tariff of Abominations" was proposed or supported by the following Southerners: VP John C Calhoun from SC Sec. of State Henry Clay from KY Andrew Jackson from TN House representatives from TN and KY The "Tariff of Abominations" was opposed by other Southerners and also by a majority New Englanders. After passage, the 1828 Tariff of Abominations caused South Carolinians to threaten nullification and secession, to

Some Southern political leaders supported the Tariff of Abominations beforehand. Once they saw how harmful it was economically, nobody in the South supported high tariffs any more.

Finally, the Confederate constitution says nothing about a 10% maximum tariff rate, though it does attempt to eliminate protectionist tariffs.

The Confederate Constitution allowed for a revenue tariff only - no protectionist tariff. The maximum rate for a revenue tariff was understood by one and all to be 10%.

In February 1860 Confederates adopted basically the old 15% US tariff from 1857 (passed by Democrats), with some minor changes. It was replaced by the second Confederate tariff on August 31, 1861.

Feb 1860? You mean 1861. The CSA was by then at war and needed to raise huge amounts of money to pay for the war. Wars are expensive.

270 posted on 12/20/2023 7:58:38 AM PST by FLT-bird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 267 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson