The Sacred Rite Of Communion Is An Essential Foundation For The New Social Contract Which The Western World Needs

https://tujuhbelasan.com/ ^ | 24th January, 2023 | Ozguy1945

[MayflowerMadam]

Hippoltus. Cyprian. Origen. All extra-Biblical.

I don’t recall seeing those books in the Bible. You might as well be quoting Jim Jones, Mary Baker Glover Patterson Eddy, or Brigham Young.

I can make up stuff, too. it wouldn’t be God’s Word, either.

[Elsie]

...you...

[Elsie]

Non Sequitur example:

So, if such a thing is possible with demonic possession, why should Baptism be any different?

Catholic reasoning for all of the extra-biblical stuff that pervades the RCC.

[Elsie]

We know from Scripture itself that Christ came to save everybody, including infants and retarded people.

But NOT His mom. She was sinless, doncha know.

--Wannabe_Catholic_Dude(Hail Mary!)

[Elsie]

Acts 10:7 7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread

The Lord's Day is the first day of the week, when the disciples came together for Eucharist

So they are considered the same?

[Elsie]

Corinthians 10:16 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

...now YOU are the body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:27

[Elsie]

Of all the parts of a worship service, communion is specifically mentioned in the bible to perform, whereas singing and "greeting each other" and tithing (as part of the worship service) is not.

Oh?

Acts 16:25
About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening to them.

---

I guess this doesn't qualify as a 'worship' service.

[ShadowAce]

Just because it’s not mentioned in *every* instance does not mean it’s not mentioned.

[Cronos]

Mayflower — those were examples of early Christians who spoke about infant baptism.

This shows that at least from the 1st century you have infants being baptised.

Now if you want Biblical proof - that’s in my following post below.

[Cronos]

Here are the Biblical proof

Acts 10:7 7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread

The Lord's Day is the first day of the week, when the disciples came together for Eucharist

Corinthians 10:16 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? --> The Eucharist

this is not ritual -- if you read in the Bible, starting from John 6:30, we read

30 So they asked him, “What sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do?
31 Our ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness; as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’
32 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is the bread that comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 “Sir,” they said, “always give us this bread.”
35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.
36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.

They asked Him for a sign, saying that Moses gave them manna in the desert. If Jesus (according to them) was aspiring to the level of Moses, He should do something as big as that.

and Jesus says something strange to them -- He says Moses didn't give you bread, My father did, and bread that comes down from heaven. Then He says that HE is the bread of life, HE is the manna -- and manna was to be eaten.

The people around Him made the same mistake you did, which is to think he was speaking as a metaphor.

Yet Jesus REPEATED the same thing, saying

48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died.
50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which anyone may eat and not die.
51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. Whoever eats this bread will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

And now the crowd is openly rebellious saying “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
And

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.
57 Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.

Note -- Jesus doesn't clear up the Metaphor, like he did in Matt. 16:5–12

5 When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread.
6 “Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
7 They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn’t bring any bread.”
8 Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread?
9 Do you still not understand? Don’t you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?
10 Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered?
11 How is it you don’t understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
12 Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

So, Jesus DOES indicate when it is a metaphor and when it isn't.
In this case, look at the reaction of his DISCIPLES, people who had heard his teachings for so long and followed him

60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”...

66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

You cannot say that this was just bread and wine of that this is a metphor for coming and having faith in the Lord or some kind of metphor for believing in Christ because of the reaction of the Jews and the very language -- to eat one's flesh and drink the blood means to do violence on some one. You see it even in Hindi where a threat is "Mein tera Khoon pie jaongaa" or "I will drink your blood" -- and this is among vegetarians! To drink a persons blood means a serious threat of injury.So, if you believe that this was just a metphor, you mean to say that Christ is rewarding people for crucifying Him?!! That's nonsensical, sorry.

You cannot even say it was a metaphor by incorreclty comparing it to John 10:9 (I am the gate/doorway) or John 15:1 (I am the true vine) is because this is not referenced in the entire verse in the same way as John 6 which shows the entire incident from start to finish of Jesus saying His body is to be eaten, repeating it and seeing his disciples go and not correcting them (as he did in Matthew 16).

Even in the literal sense -- Christ says he is the gateway to heaven and the vine such that we get nourishment with him as the connecting path. But John 6 is much much more than mere symbolism as He categorically states that "For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed" (John 6:55).

Even at the end of John 6, Jesus rebukes those who think of what He has said as a metaphor by emphasising that

61 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
62 Then what if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before!
63 The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life.
64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.”

Jesus repeats the rebuke against just thinking in terms of human logic (Calvin's main problem) by saying

John 8:15 You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.
16 But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.

[Cronos]

Christ came to save His mom - who do you think kept her free from sin? It wasn’t her doing, but God’s will

[Cronos]

1 Cor 10:16 is clear 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.

In chapter 12 he takes forward that analogy that we are all partakers of that One Bread - the Body of Christ

[Cronos]

Acts 20:7 - "Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread"

Eucharist = breaking bread at the altar. The body of Christ. As inaugurated by Christ Himself

Let’s read John 6 - just the words of Jesus recorded

he said to Philip, “Where can we buy enough food for them to eat?”
Philip answered him, “Two hundred days’ wages[e] worth of food would not be enough for each of them to have a little [bit].”
Jesus said, “Have the people recline.”
He gave thanks, and distributed them to those who were reclining, and also as much of the fish as they wanted.

they saw Jesus walking on the sea[k] and coming near the boat, and they began to be afraid. 20 But he said to them, “It is I.[l] Do not be afraid.”

“Amen, amen, I say to you, you are looking for me not because you saw signs but because you ate the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life,[o] which the Son of Man will give you. For on him the Father, God, has set his seal.”

“This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent.”

, “Amen, amen, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave the bread from heaven; my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

“I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst. 36 But I told you that although you have seen [me], you do not believe. 37 Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me, 38 because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me. 39 And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it [on] the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him [on] the last day.”

“Stop murmuring[r] among yourselves. 44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets:

‘They shall all be taught by God.’

Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him comes to me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father. 47 Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died; 50 this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven; whoever eats this bread will live forever; and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.”

“Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats[s] my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. 57 Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. 58 This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

“Does this shock you? 62 What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?[u] 63 It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh[v] is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”
“For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”

“Did I not choose you twelve? Yet is not one of you a devil?” 71 He was referring to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot; it was he who would betray him, one of the Twelve.

---

Jesus’ deeds and words are clear

1. God will feed the multitudes
2. I am God - I can walk on water
3. Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life,[o] which the Son of Man will give you
4. This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent
5. my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.
6. I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger,
7. I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
8. unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. 54 Whoever eats[s] my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. 55 For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him.

===== +++ =======

He is crystal clear - and He emphasizes that this is not an allegory, but repeats thrice that this is what you are to do - eat of His Body and drink of His blood

[Elsie]

Then why didn’t Doubting Thomas lick his fingers after probing His wounds?

Or munch a bit of flayed flesh from His back?

[Cronos]

Then why didn’t Doubting Thomas lick his fingers after probing His wounds?

Firstly - you don't know he didn't

Secondly, that's different from the Eucharist - unless you are mocking Jesus

[Elsie]

Let’s read John 6

Verses 28:29

[Elsie]

All have sinned - bible

Except Mary - Rome

[Elsie]

You don’t know that he didn’t.

I think this is kind of Catholic reasoning was explained in reply. #63.

[Elsie]

Yep it sure different all right

One is REAL flesh
The other is ‘real’ flesh

[MHGinTN]

The catholic cult circular reasoning is a very large circle, but hallmarked all the way round by catholic assertions to be taken as truth when they are fabricated notions by catholic hierarchy, meant to empower the catholic heirarchy. Lies by any other name. The following asertion is an example of this stealthy scheme: "baptism is the way a person becomes part of the Body of Christ". Thus the power brokers hold the membership cards and favor whom they will. Also, if baptism erased sin, there is no need for the Blood of Christ. The meaning of the "for" is twisted to fit the empowerment scheme, when in actuality the Koine Greek translates as 'because of' or 'as a result of', clearly making the blood of Christ the means by which sin is remitted.

The Catholicism cult has had two thousand years to fabricate the cult dogma, and as shown by cronos, the scheme is delivered in massive text dumps rife with catholic fabrications required to be taken as truth when they are mere human fabrications to empower the scheme.