AZ: Mt Lemmon Bear Attack, Details from 1996

Gun Watch ^ | December 21, 2017 | Dean Weingarten

[Big Red Badger]

3” 686...TALO
Sweetie’
.
That Hickock guy
Thanks

[Paal Gulli]

Penetration favor mass. As marktwain noted, "...[H]eavier for caliber bullets generally penetrate better, if the bullets are designed to penetrate...."

Before smokeless powder was invented, plenty of elephants were killed with 4-bore and 8-bore rifles firing 1200-1900 grain bullets at 1200-1500 fps. And those had to penetrate about three feet of bone, muscle and sinew to get to the animal's brain. The most serious of the modern dangerous game rounds still favor massive bullets at 2200-2400 fps, but always with a non-deforming (usually monolithic) bullet.

Blogger Loose Rounds tested a .455 Webley -- the revolver round the British military used for about a thousand years -- shooting a heavy-jacketed 265-gr conical bullet generating only 559 fps at the muzzle (a paltry 184 fpe) but that penetrated 18.4 inches in ballistic gel. Apart from the engravings from the rifling, the recovered bullet showed little evidence of having being fired, which is typical for a bullet that's meant to bore deep holes.

https://general-cartridge.com/2020/04/07/loose-rounds-webley-455-mk-vi-265gr-fmj-in-clear-ballistics-gel/

I doubt you'll find an experienced archery hunter who'll tell you he's switching to a lighter/faster arrow because it'll penetrate better than a heavier/slower one.

[smokingfrog]

I forgot they were 7 shots.
Might have to modify my Dirty Harry taunt. LoL

[smokingfrog]

1200-1900 grain bullets

Excuse me, sir …. That would be a cannon. :)

Might come in handy in Jurassic Park, though.

[Paal Gulli]

"Excuse me, sir …. That would be a cannon. :)"

‘Think artillery’ when it comes to the 4-bore double rifles of Austrian gunmaker Peter Hofer.

If he's still in business, there's a gunsmith (Ken Owen) in Moscow, Tennessee still making 4-bore double rifles. His "in-house" ammunition drives a 2000-grain bullet @1600 fps. They're all customs, of course, but they run about 25-lbs to help tame the recoil. He mostly makes Nitro Express guns but you can tell he draws customers with thick wallets because he once built a 4-bore with woolly mammoth ivory inlays. IIRC, that one was featured in Guns&Ammo. If you see one of his 4-bores on auction at Rock Island or elsewhere, they typically fetch north of $100k ... used.

[IYAS9YAS]

A teenage girl had been badly mauled by a bear, in her tent, as part of a 4-H outing.

I'd be talking to the planning committee about that.

[MileHi]

Wow, wow! The 4 and 8 bore rifles are awesome, indeed. 300 - 400 ft/lb of recoil buddy, that will get your attention. And the guns are art work.

[4Liberty]

[marktwain]

Very good! I once commented to a girlfriend, looking at a colorful, red and white sunset: "Isn't it beautiful! Just like a fresh kill on snow!"

[smokingfrog]

lol

[AnAmericanMother]

The .455 Webley is vastly underrated.

There's a reason it was the Brits' sidearm for a century or so. Heavy and slow gives good penetration and very effective "knockdown".

A lot of them were brought home by GIs and modified to shoot .45 ACP in half-moon clips. I have an unmodified one and load for it because factory ammo is almost unobtainable (and not very good when it is). I load a 250-gr flat-nose hollowpoint with Unique powder. The bonus is, it belches gouts of green fire from the muzzle and the forcing cone. Everybody at the range stops and calls, "What the )(*(&*&(^ was THAT?"

[marktwain]

It is not a good idea to shoot .45 ACP harball in the Webleys. The pressures are about the same as proof loads for the Webley, and the full metal jacketed bullets may tend to stretch the frame.

Shooting lead bullets at factory velocities, using a handload with bullseye powder has yielded good results for many European shooters.

[AnAmericanMother]

I agree absolutely - generally prefer to shoot loads designed for a firearm (especially an old one!)

For my Webley loads, I've downloaded the powder charge, considering the age of the pistol and the top-break lock. Bullseye is considerably hotter than Unique, and I don't like to use a load with the powder just a small pile in the bottom of the shell- prefer to leave little room between the charge and the bullet.

I may try some of our lead cast bullets from wheelweights - the BHN is optimal for cowboy action shooting which requires bullets within a narrow range to minimize ricochets. And it doesn't leave a lot of fouling in the barrel.

[Tijeras_Slim]

I have a buddy who has that load in his gun when he hikes in the Sandias. It’s light Scandium Smith. He fired it at the range and that round made the recoil feel like he’d tried to stop a baseball bat swing.

[Fightin Whitey]

Even worse is that he accidentally brought it.

I've accidentally carried firearms into nonfire-arm buildings or areas marked as not allowing same.

Oh! I have been just SOOO mad the next day when I realized why my new hotcomb seemed just so bulky.

[Fightin Whitey]

I've accidentally carried firearms into nonfire-arm buildings or areas or marked as not allowing same.

Oh! I have been just SOOO mad the next day when I realized why my new hotcomb was so terribly bulky!

[Fightin Whitey]

yogi loves pb&j

He takes a real shine to the head and neck areas too!

[Big Red Badger]

Wow.
Thanks that’s what I was thinking Too.
Buffalo Bores’ .38 +P is half the energy of their magnum rounds.
That what I feel comfortable with in a 4”
GP 100 but the adrenaline factor of having a Bear on my butt might be worth a Box at
40 bucks. 180 gr. a 1400 fps. Dang !

[Paal Gulli]

From "Forgotten Weapons'" Ian McCollum, An Overview of 4-Bore Stopping Rifles (YouTube)

[Tijeras_Slim]

Given his description of recoil, I’d go with their >38+P Outdoorsman. 158 gr at 1250 with a hard semi-wad cutter. Part of the deal is the metplat of the bullet. Elmer Keith was on the money with bullet profile. Plus, I’d like something controllable enough to stick more than one in old Oso.